To expect him to pay?

[AtSea1979]

This is going to sound terrible I know but for some reason I feel it.
Went on first date with a guy last week, paid £20 babysitter, and met him for drinks, we both bought a round.
He told me he had a lovely time and would I like to go out for dinner next week, I said yes.
Tonight, I paid babysitter another £20, and went out for meal, when bill came I got my purse out to pay (total £55) my half but then he put £30 down and I was surprised he didn't tell me to put my purse away. Even though I would have said no and paid half I still feel like he should have paid the full.
I know they are my kids and my responsibility but I still wonder whether I want to date someone again who is so tight.
AIB completely U? (and date I say, sexist?) Or would others feel similar?

Everyuser, I never suggested the man starts paying every single time, but to take it in turns instead. The OP is welcome to initiate that.

The babysitting costs can't be taken into account, but I agree you should mention you are not exactly rich OP, so dating doesn't get you in financial trouble.
Aside from that, It really depends on how the arrangement was made , as to who pays.
If he says:
"I'd like to take you for dinner. There is this French place I love"
He pays, as he has invited you, and has chosen the restaurant.
"Shall we go for dinner on Saturday? Where do you fancy?"
You split it.
If you say
"I'll take you to that cute cafe on the high St for Lunch"
You pay.
If I say to my colleagues "lets have drinks after work on Thursday" I will order a couple of bottles of wine from the bar and stick it on my card, as it was my invite.
I am quite generous, and hate pettiness about money, so I hate stingy men. And single men over 30, unfortunately, seem to be very often seflish and tight with money, maybe as they are so used to only spending on themselves.
So I can understand why it was offputting, totally.

Ardiente
I never suggested the man starts paying every single time, but to take it in turns instead. The OP is welcome to initiate that.

But at the point the OP was talking about, it was the end of a second date. Who's to say there would have been another time? Lots of people date once or twice then never again. Much better IMO that the earlier dates are split equally then later dates are opportunities for "no, let me" scenarios.

The OP said I was surprised he didn't tell me to put my purse away. Even though I would have said no and paid half I still feel like he should have paid the full which is a bit contradictory, but somehow I don't think she'll be instigating any offers for her to pay the bill any time soon!

Thinking back many years ago to my dating days, they generally offered to pay, I would offer a token resistance, then let them. The second date I would insist on paying it all to even things up, and then from then on go Dutch.
It wasn't the actual money just more a nice thing to do. I guess if I had done the inviting then I would insist on paying for the first meal too.

I know times have changed and I think that for youngsters it is right that they split the bills, but I think us old ones appreciate a bit of gentlemaness and I think I would be a bit put out too, if they had invited me.

Maybe ops gentleman friend has had his hands burned and his pockets fleeced too often in the past. I guess the older you are, the more likely this is to be true.

If I knew I didn't want to see them again, I would always make sure they weren't out of pocket though.

YANBU

I guess I am a traditionalist when it comes to this

If a man made me pay even half for the first date there wouldn't be a second one.

After the first date then sure, go halves, take it in turns, whatever.

I'm still aghast that so many people on this thread seem to equate money with niceness.

I'd rather judge the person I'm with on the date that has just happened rather than what happens in such a small part of it.

What happens if the man is strapped for cash? It doesn't make him not a nice person.

OP you say that you got your purse out to pay your half. So at no point did you ever intend to pay the full bill, but you expected him to offer.

Your babysitter may have cost you, but maybe his rent/mortgage payments are more than yours. Maybe his car costs more to run. Unless you specifically told him the cost of the babysitter, he may have assumed it was a friend or relative doing you a favour.

Did he say, 'can I take you out for dinner, my treat' or did you just arrange to meet for dinner?

In these days of equality, or at least bleating about wanting it, you should actually expect to be rested equally.

I have a son and a daughter. I would expect them both to pay their own way, more if they were able and wanted to.

I don't expect a guy to pay for me on dates, but I'm charmed and impressed when they do. I'll be honest, my husband paid for my dates the first couple times before I paid for him a couple times.

My rule is normally this for dates. You ask me, you pay. I ask you, I pay.

If a guy is expecting to split, I don't see it as a date so much as two friends hanging out.

When a man is on the first few dates is when he's going to be on his best behavior, it's going to go a bit down hill from there. If he's not impressing me on the first few dates, I ditch him. If he's not going to be charming by picking up the tab, then he better be doing something else to show he likes me more than just a friend. But I tend to gravitate towards romantic guys that pay for dates, get their girls flowers, hold doors, kiss in the rain, silly stuff like that.

Anyway, OP there's nothing wrong with wanting a guy to pay. Dating is about finding a guy that is compatible with you regardless of what other people expect. But personally before getting a bit irritated he didn't pay, weigh it up against everything else in the date. Did he respect you? Was there a spark? Did you genuinely enjoy your time with him? If he never paid for you ever, would you still be ok or would it grate on you? If you know it would bug you after a while, I'd find someone else to date to be honest.

Kim, if I was male and inviting women out on dates then I wouldn't be taking them to places I couldn't easily afford.

I would probably do something small like a picnic on the beach; or even just a walk.

First dates don't have to be expensive. My best date was a nature walk during the day which didn't cost a penny

Long winded way of saying YABU

Are you saying because you have to pay for the baby sitter he should have to pay for dinner as that is the only thing that makes sense about why you would link the two in your OP.

Fleta, when I met my husband he was skint. He had no money; he wasn't even working due to a disability, so I certainly don't think having loads of money makes you nice. My husband is the nicest man ever and had no money to speak of when we met.

Our dates were pretty cheap; most were free.

If a man invites me out to a restaurant on a first date then I will assume he can afford to pay for me. If he can't that should be made clear beforehand.

I realise it is very old fashioned and logically, those who are saying it is wrong to expect them to pay have a very good point, I still can't help feeling that it is bad manners to invite someone on a first date and not pay.

Obviously things are changing now.

I dont think the issue is really that the OP had to pay a babysitter.

I see where you are coming from. I would never expect a man to pay and I would always have ffered my half.

However, Its just polite for a man to offer to pay - especially if its just the first couple of dates.

Hell, DP alwyas offers to pay for a meal but we end up arguing because I want to split it.

I wouldnt get to hung up on it htough. If he is a nice persona nd you want to give things a go then take it taht he was trying to be respectful.

Maybe like an other posted suggested he finds money tight. Maybe suggest something less expensive next time.

If the man is expected to pay then what do gay men do on dates? It must get very awkward!

Or maybe they just do the fair and sensible thing, like, split the bill?

On another note, I have, unfortunately, been on a couple of dates where it was clear by the guy paying that sex had been "bought" and was expected. They didn't get any

I think it's polite to go halves.

I don't understand why so many posters are equating paying for a meal with romance.
Yes, it's a nice gesture, but not romantic. Romantic lies in how attentive he is being, not in the size of his wallet.

I agree with the PPs who have said that 'tight' would be itemising each bit of the bill. Splitting the bill 50/50 is completely normal in 2014.

Give him a chance, OP, assuming you like him otherwise - and do something different/cheaper for your next date if you feel out of pocket.

YABU. He treated you as an equal - he probably also picked up on the signals (buying a round last itme, taking out your purse) that you intended to pay your way.

I have let a man pay full for a date once and only once. he seemed to think that because he has payed for dinner ( i had offered to pay half) and a few glasses of wine that i somehow owed him something. so when he suggested we have a nightcap at his place and i refused he quite upset that he had payed for my food and i still wouldn't go back with him

I used to work in a nightclub too, a few guys would offer to buy me a drink which i could either take as the drink or take the money as a tip. i accepted a drink of one guy as it was NYE and i thought a bottle of bud at the end of my shift would go own a treat. he stood waiting at the end of the bar all night expecting me to leave with him because he had brought me a drink. in the end security had to physically remove him as the club was emptying and he was demanding i must leave with him because i owed him.

from then on i didn't accept anything from anyone i pay my own way.

If a man is inviting you out for dinner on a date then I personally (IMHO) think it is polite for him to offer to pay. Not assume you are going halves.

I would never expect a man to just pay and I would always offer/pay half.

I wouldn't invite someone to my house for dinner and expect them to bring a starter or dessert. So I certainly would never invite someone out for dinner then expect them to pay. Again just my opinion. Or am I not allowed one of those??

OP was aksing everyone thoughts. She has a barrage of opinions now. I don't think there is a definitve right or wrong answer.

Slightly different, but I met a colleague for a drink last night (absolutely not a date). i was thinking that he would buy a drink, and then I would buy a drink...he came back from the bar with a bottle of wine, and I was a bit . Partly because I didn't want to drink that much (I did ) but partly because I like to pay my way. For the record, we had a good chat about work and I said next time we met the wine would be on me. We do similar jobs, so we probably earn about the same.

After reading this, I feel for men. If they offer to pay all, they offend half of women who think they are controlling and not treating them equally. If they don't offer to pay the whole thing, they are unromantic with bad manners.