My daughter's friend on inappropriate website, how do I broach the topic with her grandma?

[tisrainingagain]

More of a what would you do I suppose.

My dd (10) has been in a weepy confessional mood recently and very worried about small things... Eg. months ago she "picked a skittle off the playground floor, brushed it clean and ate it"... Very concerned about germs suddenly and has she done the right thing. Part of me blames myself for this thinking maybe we have stressed her out telling her to wash her hands etc? (Of course hands have to be washed before meals etc.. I don't think we are over the top, but I don't understand why she is suddenly so worried about "bad things happening". I do remember going through a similar phase but think that I was older than 10).

Anyway, that's kind of a side issue. Some of her "confessions" concern time spent at a friend's house (also 10). One of these was when the friend gave her two vitamin tablets in water (but without saying they were vitamins, saying they were her Grandad's cancer medicine) and my daughter drank it. 3 months later she told me this story in tears (but did not seem remotely upset before that). So I cleared that one up with her friend's grandma (who is the main carer) who confirmed that they had been vitamins.

Another issue was the same friend asking my dd to drink some of a bath bomb they had just made. Apparently the friend drank some and my dd says she just licked a little bit of it and then rinsed her mouth out. Again this happened a while ago and again my daughter is in tears about it now. So I said that in future if she doesn't want to do something, just to say no etc... She obviously seems to have been easily lead which I would not have thought. Maybe now she will react in a different way to things she does not want to do.

Anyway, all this is fairly trivial I suppose. Now for the bombshell. At the same friend's house, and also a long time ago (my dd says a year, don't know how exact that would be), the friend went on a website called omegle which I had never heard of, to have completely inappropriate chats with strangers at the other end. My daughter in tears again saying it was nasty stuff. I asked her to give me some examples, which she didn't want to at first, but when she did, I agree that it was nasty .

So I told her how inappropriate this was for all the different reasons, and the dangers involved. And that (again) she has to stand up for what she knows is right and go and tell the adult present if something is wrong (friend's grandma was downstairs at the time). She says there were two playdates where her friend was on this website and that it hasn't happened for a long time.

My dilemma is how I broach this subject with the grandma without her feeling defensive and judged? She may well know, but maybe she doesn't? Just having the vitamin conversation with her you could see that she was slightly defensive, how defensive is she going to feel about this?

I think I do have to say something for her grandaughter's sake, but how do I phrase it?

Am also annoyed that my daughter was exposed to this, but that would not be part of my conversation with my friend (the grandma).

I don't think thats fair kawlinga. The op is treading carefully for her DDs sake.

I agree Coco. It's unlikely to have been conducive to straight communication and problem solving to embark on a hurried conversation within earshot of children during a busy, distracted school run.

I just wanted to say - again - that I don't think it's that helpful for people to jump to the worst possible conclusion here. This is not that unusual a situation for kids of that kind of age. The OP is doing a great job of handling this, and is doing all the right things in talking to her daughter about what happened and building trust with her so that she can talk about this more openly, while also contacting the people involved so that measures can be put in place.

We all know that there are terrible abuses that happen online, and this thread probably now warrants some kind of trigger warning. But there is no reason at this point in time to think that this is anything more than a couple of kids innocently clicking on a very dodgy chatroom for a few minutes. (For what it's worth, I once stumbled across my uncle's porn magazine at the same age and found it a bit scary and traumatic, but there were no lasting consequences as my mum was very calm in explaining it all to me). From the current evidence, there is no point leaping to extreme conclusions and ringing David Cameron to demand that the SAS are sent in, guns blazing. If there are further revelations, and it becomes necessary, I am sure the OP will contact the relevant authorities. But right now, she's doing a remarkably good job of staying level-headed and practical and dealing with the actual situation in front of her.

I didn't want to talk about the situation in front of our two dds (grandaughter in her case) and the other children present - my younger dd etc... My dd also does not want me to tell her in front of her. I haven't minimised it. I don't know how my friend will deal with it at her end. What happened was serious but I didn't want to have that kind of conversation on the street. I am not looking to sleep well at night . I do hate confrontation of any kind though and I suppose this is a failing.
I don't know what "kick" is unless it's "kik" which is similar to WhatsApp.

tisraining - you are NOT failing. You're doing great. And I wouldn't have had that conversation in the street, either - precisely BECAUSE your DD had requested you not to deal with it in front of her. Your DD's trust is absolutely paramount in this situation: she needs to be able to tell you everything. To break it so unnecessarily would have been stupid and potentially counterproductive.

Don't see it as a confrontation. See it as building a relationship with the other parent-guardian to protect BOTH children. It doesn't have to be judgey and fingerpointy - the real bad guys here are on the other side of the screen. I am sure neither you nor grandma would want either girl coming to harm.

Sorry for being unfair, not my intention. OP is treading carefully I agree and I can see that OP is a very kind and thoughtful and generous person. That's not in issue at all, if anything she is being a bit too considerate to the 'friend'.

I would be very angry if my friend allowed our girls to experience these kinds of things at her house, not just the internet thing but also the drinking toxins thing. I would not be politely waiting for her to finish her dinner so I can call her at a time that's not too inconvenient for her. But I have said already that I admire the OP's generosity and don't mean to be unfair.

I hope your dd is feeling better. It's horrible when you are a child and the awful, nasty parts of the grown up world are revealed to you.

Her 'friend' is what my mum would have classified as a bad influence, and would have banned contact with her. She sounds cuel and an awful show-off. In our day she woud be the girl shoplifting lipstick from Boots!

I'd make sure your dd knows that a friend is someone who makes you feel good, and who looks out for you - not bullies, teases and lures you into potential danger. It will be sex next.

Speak to the grandma to flag to her (I'm sure she is blissfully uaware of the site, or thinks its all innocent - also be prepared for her to treat you as if you are being a hysterical ninny), warn the school that kids are looking at this type of site (hopefully they will do some work on keeping safe online).

When my dd was about 8 she asked to go on the computer, which was unusual for her. She had been playing out with friends in the street who were a couple of years older.
She had searched for "nekkid girls/girls no tops on/sex etc.
I asked her why as and she said the boys were talking about it (they were still primary school age). She wanted to know what they were on about.
She was upset over something she saw, even though we had strict settings on it. She cried and I had to assure her me and her daddy never ever had sex an that was the end of it. No lasting damage.

You were perfectly right not to have the conversation in the street, that was not an appropriate place.

Kawlinga, I would feel the same and phoning the GM straight away, but its in my nature to be confrontional sometimes.
I realise this isnt everyones way of dealing with things.

Or necessarily the right way to do things.

See Cocolepew the incident with your dd sounds to me like something within the bounds of 'normal'. I know there's no such thing as normal, but for an 8 year old to search on the internet for something she heard other kids talking about is something I can imagine any child doing - similarly to kids finding a hidden stash of porn at a friend's house that turned out not to be so carefully hidden after all. Lots of kids google naughty words, on purpose or accidentally. You have a word with them, you move on.

Dissolving 'cancer medicine' and getting a friend to drink it does not fit within that scope of what kids normally get up to. That would traumatize me and I'm not even 10 years old. I did not think the early incidents were 'trivial' and the internet thing somehow more serious, I saw all the things going on at the 'friend's' house as being totally messed up quite frankly. I'm still

kawliga - sorry, don't mean to be up in your grill! You seem way too nice for that! But just curious... did you never do stupid stuff for a dare when you were younger? I did, all the time, and so did all my friends. I remember climbing onto the school roof up an extremely beaten up old lead pipe , and also convincing all my friends that the poor innocent school caretaker, who was a lovely man, was a serial killer who carried a knife with him at all times. The dares got especially intense in the last year of primary/first year of high school, maybe because we still had the fears of children but also the beginnings of a more grown-up concept of the world and a growing ability to do stupid stuff (like climb onto school roofs). And that is quite an odd place to be, and very confusing!

I know times have changed now, and we're all more careful (which is a good thing) but kids are still kids, right? Maybe the grandma hasn't moved with the times quite as much as some other middle class parents in terms of the supervision on offer at the house -and maybe that needs to change or visits need to stop - but it doesn't sound like anything that much out of the ordinary to me.

Just wanted to add some encouragement. It's brilliant that your dd told you this and that you told her that you would have to talk to the grandma.

Please, please do give your dd a big hug and tell her how proud you are of her, that she told you, and that it doesn't matter how much time has gone by, you will always listen to her if something is worrying her. Reassure her, if she needs it, that by telling you, she has helped to look after her friend too, and perhaps use the opportunity to remind her that her friend is not making good choices in life ( at giving out Granpa's medication!! sadly not too at unsupervised internet access, but wow - poor lass. She needs a good friend to look after her, and to say no to her.)

Best of luck with the phone call. You seem to me to be handling this well.

Isabellavine, the stories you told made me smile (scaring your friends with horror stories about the caretaker!) and also Cocolepew's story made me smile (that bit where she assures her dd that her parents have never ever had sex)...of course kids get up to all kinds of horrors and it's lucky some of them survive childhood - setting things on fire, going on adventures to dangerous places, daring each other to jump off roofs, etc. Honestly we all have such stories, we can laugh about them now to some extent while recognizing the real dangers.

Something about OP's situation just sounded creepy to me. I did not feel remotely like smiling when I read what happened, if anything my blood ran cold. I think it's the degree of trauma her dd has suffered from it, I think that's the difference. Her dd sounds like she's suffering, considering she's only 10 years old that's a deep sadness.

This: she says dd is in a weepy confessional mood of late, dd is reporting things which she says happened a long time ago, one year ago even, but she is in tears about in now, dd is very concerned about bad things happening, etc. This does not sound to me like the way children react usually - I would guess the children you scared with stories about the caretaker were not still seriously weeping about it one year later? Also Cocolpew says her dd was absolutely fine after they had the talk. To me that's the main difference.

Another factor could be where it is all happening, in the friend's house where there's no chance of anybody seeing what's going on (grandma obviously does not watch them) and how consistently the two of them are playing there and 'refusing' or rather resisting when OP tries to get them to play at OP's house instead. I would be more worried about that than things happening at school, in the playground, in the park, in the neighbourhood streets, generally where kids congregate to play. There are kids who bring porn to the park on their phones and show their friends - that is terrible and I would try to keep my dc away from playing with such friends but in a way I would not find it creepy, I would find it a 'normal' hazard of growing up. Not trying to say it is all good because it happens in the park, just that I don't think it would be damaging and traumatic in a 'bring in the professionals' kind of way and I wouldn't expect dd to be suffering with it several months later.

Gosh, that was long. Sorry. Some things are creepy and some are not and it's really hard to explain the difference logically.

I understand what you are saying. To a certain degree we expect our DCs to be confronted with porn, or some type of inappropriate video footage , at some point. It's inevitable, it's everywhere.
But 10 (9?) year olds on the internet with men actual talking to them, on real time, or watching them or vice versa , is very, very frightening.

Oh, kaw, I see what you are saying now - that this little girl maybe has an unhealthy fascination with this stuff?

I guess that's possible - it's hard to say, and I guess even the OP doesn't know for sure. The girl is repeatedly pushing at the boundaries for some reason, and while I think that's probably quite normal for the age (i.e. not creepy, just nascent sexuality/rebelliousness), I have to admit in the OP's position I would want my daughter more closely supervised, particularly as she's proven to be quite susceptible to the influence of her friend (again, normal for the age, but nonetheless disturbing and confusing for the DD because peer pressure is a new and potent kind of social power. Next step, high school tribes).

Similarly, the OP's DD crying could be a sign of trauma, or it might just be a normal reaction to one of the many puzzling/confusing things we have to come to terms with as we get older. Hard to tell on t'net. I'm not sure the 'year' thing can be taken at face value - someone said earlier in the thread that this maybe didn't happen a year ago, but much more recently and that the OP's DD is distancing because she fears punishment, or because it's just easier emotionally for her that way. I hope that's true - I'd have a flutter on it being right, but it would be just a flutter - we're deep in the realms of speculation here.

OP, I hope you're having an OK evening

What IS abnormal is the sick blokes that sit on the other end chatting to young girls. Now that REALLY makes my skin crawl!

Hi OP I just wanted to add my support, you poor thing. PLease keep talking to your DD, she needs to know that however bad something is she can trust you and that you love her unconditionally. A good relationship means openness and honesty. Try to stay calm and reassuring whatever she tells you, I know that will be hard for you The bullying "friend" (and I really do think this relationship needs cooling, pronto) may have divulged things to DD or sworn her to secrecy, DD needs to know that sometimes its OK to tell a secret, to a trusted adult, as it might actually help the person who has told you the secret.

I really do think you need to inform the school, they are the professionals and will know how much further it needs to go. Childline or similar may also offer confidential anonymous advice.

I am 43 and have never heard of this site, which by all accounts on here is vile - so, how did the friend get into this? is it possible she has stumbled over her granddads history? what else has she access to? this would be one of my concerns.

I understand what you are saying. To a certain degree we expect our DCs to be confronted with porn, or some type of inappropriate video footage , at some point. It's inevitable, it's everywhere.
But 10 (9?) year olds on the internet with men actual talking to them, on real time, or watching them or vice versa , is very, very frightening.

Yes, that.

Hi all

Just wanted to say thank you to all of you for your support while I sat there worrying for an entire day (not very productive).

Dd assures me that there is nothing else to tell and I believe her. She says she only now realises that what they did was not right and I think it's to do with her growing up and seeing things differently.

I spoke to my friend (my dd's friend's grandma) so she is in the picture too.

Have reiterated to dd never ever to speak to anyone she doesn't know online (which I suppose is what we are doing here , and have also been speaking about her saying no to things friends might want to do, even if she feels that her friendship with this person is jeopardised in the process.

Am going to bring up the issue of what happened and of internet security with the school. Dd tells me that they often have that type of assembly but the more the message is drummed in, the better.

Thanks again for all your advice.

Your daughter has seen some totally inappropriate things on this chat room. Your concern should not be about your friendship with the grandma it should be with your daughter full stop. This needs to stop now, I would not allow my child to go to a friends house under any circumstance if I knew this had happened. You must not delay this and speak to the girls grandmother immediately. And I actually agree with the poster who says inform the school, this is a safe guarding issue. Your daughters friend is not being kept safe from abuse in her own home. Without sounding harsh stop fretting about your friends feelings and sort this out now.

That's good to hear, I hope DD is feeling better

You're allowed to speak to us, we won't show you our willies.

'She says she only now realises what they did was not right'
and
Navigating the internet unsupervised aged 10 is beyond her- she's not been naughty, she's been neglected!
The GM is not up to looking after your daughter. Stop letting her go to the house.

That's great news. It's reminded me to double check all the restrictions on all the computers here.

It's very difficult when you're reliant on other parents being computer savvy.

xpost withatos
This is a safeguarding issue.