My daughter's friend on inappropriate website, how do I broach the topic with her grandma?

[tisrainingagain]

More of a what would you do I suppose.

My dd (10) has been in a weepy confessional mood recently and very worried about small things... Eg. months ago she "picked a skittle off the playground floor, brushed it clean and ate it"... Very concerned about germs suddenly and has she done the right thing. Part of me blames myself for this thinking maybe we have stressed her out telling her to wash her hands etc? (Of course hands have to be washed before meals etc.. I don't think we are over the top, but I don't understand why she is suddenly so worried about "bad things happening". I do remember going through a similar phase but think that I was older than 10).

Anyway, that's kind of a side issue. Some of her "confessions" concern time spent at a friend's house (also 10). One of these was when the friend gave her two vitamin tablets in water (but without saying they were vitamins, saying they were her Grandad's cancer medicine) and my daughter drank it. 3 months later she told me this story in tears (but did not seem remotely upset before that). So I cleared that one up with her friend's grandma (who is the main carer) who confirmed that they had been vitamins.

Another issue was the same friend asking my dd to drink some of a bath bomb they had just made. Apparently the friend drank some and my dd says she just licked a little bit of it and then rinsed her mouth out. Again this happened a while ago and again my daughter is in tears about it now. So I said that in future if she doesn't want to do something, just to say no etc... She obviously seems to have been easily lead which I would not have thought. Maybe now she will react in a different way to things she does not want to do.

Anyway, all this is fairly trivial I suppose. Now for the bombshell. At the same friend's house, and also a long time ago (my dd says a year, don't know how exact that would be), the friend went on a website called omegle which I had never heard of, to have completely inappropriate chats with strangers at the other end. My daughter in tears again saying it was nasty stuff. I asked her to give me some examples, which she didn't want to at first, but when she did, I agree that it was nasty .

So I told her how inappropriate this was for all the different reasons, and the dangers involved. And that (again) she has to stand up for what she knows is right and go and tell the adult present if something is wrong (friend's grandma was downstairs at the time). She says there were two playdates where her friend was on this website and that it hasn't happened for a long time.

My dilemma is how I broach this subject with the grandma without her feeling defensive and judged? She may well know, but maybe she doesn't? Just having the vitamin conversation with her you could see that she was slightly defensive, how defensive is she going to feel about this?

I think I do have to say something for her grandaughter's sake, but how do I phrase it?

Am also annoyed that my daughter was exposed to this, but that would not be part of my conversation with my friend (the grandma).

GM is probably not very computer-literate, rather than just naming Omegle, could you go and see her, take a device and literally show her what site(s) have been visited.
I had to google it, never heard of it, would GM bother to, or realise the implications unless she's actually shown?

Also tell her your DD won't be visiting for a while because of the unsupervised internet use, but her GD is welcome at yours.

No need to tell her you'll be keeping a close eye, but do it anyway so you can pick up on the other controlling behaviour that the other girl is exhibiting and stop it.

I think your dd might have some more confessions tbh. She knows she's overstepped some boundaries, which is good, but definitely needs help on how to say 'no'.
How about doing some role play, where you play 'good' friend and she plays 'risk taking' friend. Come up with a whole range of ways of getting out of a situation from saying NO, to saying you don't feel well and need to go home, to saying I prefer this site or whatever. When you've got some that she feels comfy with let her write them down and put in her purse/pocket/shoe so she can go to the toilet and read through them in a situation she feels is progressing too fast.
I'm an ex primary teacher and I also think you need to tell school. You don't need to mention names. Just that there was an incident involving inappropriate sites and could school do some revision assembly on staying safe. And if they haven't already, invite an police officer or similar to talk the parents through keeping children safe on the net.

I take your point ADish (and maybe I am people pleasing and this is what she is copying at the moment ), but I only found out about the website today and am still processing it myself.

She was anxious about the way in which I would tell the grandma, but I told her right from the start that I had to.

I don't want to leave it only to her to deal with and I take your point about that too. I thought my dealing with it would be to tell the grandma a. and curb the amount of playdates at her friend's house b. I think getting the police involved would be not right for lots of reasons. I am however, going to see if I can find out more, because now that the link between all the little things my daughter is finding annoying is coming to light, you are right that there may be a connection.

Cross posted with AD and found myself nodding along with all of that.
Op-be very sure to keep calm and loving (I'm sure you are) at these confessions. She was checking your response with the tablets and bath bomb. She wants to get an idea of how big the explosion will be if she tells you something big. Plenty of hugs and reassurance.
And stay away from B as much as you can, certainly no play dates at her house.

I still find that letter judgemental. If you are striving for non judgemental then I'd suggest leaving it at least over night (or a couple of days) and then revisit your draft email. Go through it sentence by sentence and define the reason for each passage. If there is no useful reason, then delete it.

She only told you this morning, so it is still very raw for you.

***

In her current weepy confessional mood, (not needed) A told me this morning, about a website B and her had been on... in the past. during playdates at your house, (apparently on two different occasions, both about a year ago A says) (judgemental)

It is called "omegle", and seems to be an adult chatroom. A would not tell me what the content of the conversation with strangers was at first but told me it was "nasty stuff". When pressed she told me it was about sex that the conversation was inappropriate. She would not tell me more than that and was upset about it (great, factual)

I discussed the inappropriateness of it etc. She said it hasn't happened for a long time.

I don't know why this stuff is coming out now, maybe she understands things more. (irrelevant)

This is a difficult thing to talk about, I have been taken aback by what A has told me, but if we are all in the know, we are better equipped to protect and educate our girls. (what are you trying to get across here? should waffly and is not direct - what do you want the GM to do?)

Runesigil her grandma is with it, and, out of concern, I think she would google it.

I am going to tell the school in the way that you say SapSuma. The role playing ideas are great

"She was anxious about the way in which I would tell the grandma, but I told her right from the start that I had to"

Could be she feels very anxious about the way in which you would tell the grandma, because she feels responsible ... guilty ... culpable.

I'm not trying to frighten you, tisraining, but abused children do feel culpable.

Thanks so much for all your posts. And for your re-revised email, Waffle. Am going to leave it a couple of hours and change it to what you suggest. I like it because it gets the essentials across but without pointing fingers (and in the case of 10 year olds, there really is no need - they were there together and the dynamics of the situation are irrelevant (well not so much to me, but the main thing here is that the grandma knows about the site)).

ADish, I hear what you are saying, and am going to talk to my daughter this afternoon. Thank you for all of your insights.

As an ex- primary teacher- please DO tell the school OP.
You don't have to be specific, just that you're worried about the Internet & your kids.
They can do sessions about the Internet, and can talk about what the kids should do if their friends show them stuff they're not happy with. My kids school have recently done this.
They can also get the police in to give advice to parents & kids too.

If I were you, my child would not go there again. Unsupervised access to the Internet is dangerous & children can be hurt very badly.

isabellevine, thanks also for your reassurance / thoughts.

Dear my friend

Thank you for being such a good friend, and also for having A over to play so often. I would like to reciprocate more often so that you too can have a rest if you need one.

Please forgive the email rather than a phone call. I'm a little upset and I wanted to be sure I related all the facts to you before we discussed it in person.

A told me this morning, about a website that she and B had visited during playdates at your house, (she has admited this has happened on two different occasions, both about a year ago A says). It is called "omegle", and on searching it seems to be an adult chatroom which is not suitable for the girls to be accessing. A would not tell me what the content of the conversation with strangers was at first but told me it was "nasty stuff". When pressed she told me it was about sex that the conversation was inappropriate. She would not tell me more than that and was upset about it.

I discussed the inappropriateness of it etc. She said it hasn't happened for a long time but as you know, children frequently lie if they feel they are about to get into trouble.

If it was an isolated and unfortunate incident, I don't know why this stuff is coming out now, maybe she understands things more but she has been very easily upset recently and I am concerned about what she may have seen or been asked to do.

This is a difficult thing to talk about, and I have been taken aback by what A has told me, but if we are all in the know, we are better equipped to protect and educate our girls. A doesn't have unsupervised internet access at home and I will be taking steps to ensure that it is locked down further. I am concerned that B may be at risk if she has visited these sites, particularly if there is a webcam on her computer. You read of such horrible things every day, and I felt it was better to be safe than sorry and to let you know as soon as possible.

Love from me.

Missed your post posh. Yes will tell the school and also reconsider the way in (or location at) which my dd sees this friend

I wouldn't email I would phone.
You need to tell dd that you wont be cross but if there is something she needs to tell you she should. I usually say to my DDs I cant help you if I dont know what the problem is and Im the person that will keep them safe.

I know you said that you and the GM have become friends but the lackfof knowing what is going in in her own house is very worrying. You DD needs to see you being proactive about this.

Thanks tread. I agree with what you have added, but in my opinion it is difficult to say to someone about their own child / grandchild. Hopefully knowing the name of the website and roughly what happened will be enough to prompt her to do her research / take steps at her end.

coco. I have phoned so she will hopefully see the missed call and call me back, when I can then outline the situation and say that I also have an email she can read... I fear that in a conversation she may brush it aside out of defensiveness. Or I could use the email as a template and use it as a prompt while on the phone.

Another thing I totally don't know how to deal with is that apparently another friend from the class has been on this website with B. Not when my daughter was there I think. How on earth do I bring that up? Had blocked that out...

Am definitely asking the school to have an assembly.

In that case OP, I would ask to meet with the head teacher. Tell them that your DD has told you that she & others have been to this website and that you're worried about them.
You can explain it wasn't at your house, and you don't have to say who else is involved, but you can say its more than one child.

Personally, I would contact the police too but I understand that's a scary thought.
I don't know this website, but from what people have said on here, it doesn't sound good.
Remember, your daughter is vulnerable, she may be a victim of some sort of abuse. If she is not, then her friend may be, especially if she visiting inappropriate sites regularly. (Or even 'normal' sites like Facebook & Skype - when unsupervised grooming and abuse can happen there too)

I'm really not trying to scaremonger, but please, please remember that there are plenty of people on the Internet who are very unpleasant.

I know you don't want to point fingers but I think you need to say that her GD was the one that showed your DD the website (I'm assuming that is the case from your previous posts) - if you imply that they found it together or that your dd could have been the one to show her GD then there's a much higher chance that the GM won't take it as seriously and won't look into the fact that the GD could have been looking at the site lots without your dd. It sounds like she was familiar with the site the way you are describing she showed it to your dd. You can also say something along the lines of you know that she will be as horrified as you were when you found out, showing sensitivity to her (rather than her GD).

Do you think there is a chance that they were asked to do something when they were looking at the website? Have they had anything happen at school (safety online talk?) that has made her realise that what happened and what they saw really was wrong - so effectively innocence was bliss whilst she didn't know there was a problem, but now she knows that it was a problem it's freaked her out?

I also worry about your dd taking the cancer tablets if that's what she thought they were. If they really were cancer tablets and were strong take one at time ones, then she could have been really really ill taking them. Plus she would have been taking them away from the GDad who really needs them. I know they were vitamin tablets so not as dangerous (but still not great if she's a primary aged child and they were adult one-a-day ones), but it's more the power that the other girl has over her. What if she asked her to try something more dangerous like licking bathroom cleaner instead of a bathbomb? Or to drink some bleach? The other little girl might not realise that if you lick a bathbomb and get a nasty soapy taste in your mouth that if you (or your dd!) were to lick some bathroom cleaner that she'd get anything other than a different nasty soapy taste in her mouth, she wouldn't know that it could seriously injure anyone that tried it.

She's been lucky so far but how many other dares are there going to be where it gets worse? There does seem to be a pattern of escalation which would worry me if they were playing without much supervision from the GM!

Is it also worth getting somebody to talk to your dd who isn't you - sometimes it can be easier to say things to a non-parent. Maybe her teacher if s/he is nice or is there a counsellor based at the school that she could access?

Definitely worth talking to the school about the website (and telling them about the other little girl so they can keep an eye out for her) but also about your dd in general in case this is all a smaller part of a bigger picture that they could help to sort out.

You could mention that it has come to your attention that A, B and their friend group have been looking at it. I would definitely tell the school.

Omegle works like this, you log on and get sent straight to a random video chat with a stranger. Most are men and most are already masturbating on webcam as soon as you log on.
They can then either chat to you or cancel the chat and you will be sent to another random video chat with (very likely) another masturbating man. If they didn't do video chat they may have just had a chat (MSN style) but again most users seem to ask straight away sexual questions and content.
I wonder where this girl found out about this website!! Someone has told her as i cant see her stumbling upon it by accident..

is there any way you can ask your daughter to tell you more details? Gently prompt her and let her know she is not in ANY trouble and that it is important you know what happened. If she says she doesn't want to tell you then reassure her that if she does want to tell you another day you will always listen and she wont be in trouble. Such an anxious child, i would also let her know that you know she is a good girl and that it was wrong of the man/men to talk about willies to her and her friend. It may seem obvious but children often internalise blame and
and think the adult cannot have been in the wrong so they must be the 'bad' ones.

Having worked with abused children on many levels, feel free to pm me for a chat and i hope I've helped a little.

Re: Omegle works like this, you log on and get sent straight to a random video chat with a stranger. Most are men and most are already masturbating on webcam as soon as you log on.

Oh my goodness. That is terrible.

No wonder OPs daughter is upset if she has seen a man masturbating

I am fainting. Am just going to phone my friend (have just tried again but she is not picking up) and tell her that the girls have seen the website (and say how awful it is) and take it from there.

Am also going to tell the school (not the particulars but the general stuff as the headteacher (interim) does not know the meaning of the word confidentiality) so that they will hopefully run more assemblies. Will also tell my friend who is on the governing body as a parent as she will be able to push for such assemblies.

With regards to the other of my daughter's friends, am also going to mention the website to her mother. I don't know what this friend may or may not have read and it's just my daughter saying in passing that she knows that DD was on there so it is third hand information, but still important to say I think.

Am also going to find out more from my daughter.

Am feeling sick.

I wonder if it was logged on through the GMs account?
It's very disturbing if the girl seeked the website out herself and created and account, if that's what you have to do.
I'd be putting the dampners on this friendship.