To think that it is very unfair, to pick someone up on spelling or grammar, just because you disagree with what they are saying.

[smokepole]

I posted recently on a ongoing topic in this section, I was picked up for my "appalling" grammar, my use of punctuation and for my sentence construction. I noticed that when my opinion changed , strangely enough my grammar or incorrect use of exclamation marks was not picked up upon. I have noticed that this happened on other threads as well. I think this is wrong for two reasons, the first being that it is a kind of bullying, intimating that because someone struggles with spelling, punctuation or correct sentence construction, that there are thick, therefore their argument or view point does not stand up. The other point it is very unfair to pick people up who have not benefited from higher education, or in my case not even education post GCSE'S, people need to realise this and accept that they have been fortunate to have been able to access higher education, but they need to give people like me some slack over my poor grammar or sentence construction.

I did not want to mention this, but I am very Dyspraxic with terrible handwriting that held me back at school. The reason I did not mention it is because through hard work, determination and a doggedly refusal to give up, I have overcome a lot of my problems, on occasions though when rushing or under pressure, my problems can resurface. This is a reason why my grammar and punctuation can be incorrect , though my tutor ( on the access course has praised my written work). I am trying to make steps forward, no matter how small they may look , to me they are huge.

duck, I think you are being quite rude now.

Did you not see me and others explaining that many people in this situation are making big efforts to overcome these issues?

If your business falls foul of the Equality Act, won't you struggle? I mean ... it is the law, after all?

I know what you mean duckworth - in the field I work in they actually use poor spelling and grammar as a factor in rejecting job applications whilst short listing.

Twirlymooostache

Thanks for that - actually, I tend to agree with Michael Gove - most teachers are pretty incompetent and need to be held to far higher standards. I fear that far too many of them espouse the sentiments expressed on this thread, the result being a bunch of illiterate young adults. Such a shame.

Literacy is not a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act.

sorry, that was to LRD

No, but disabilities are. I know you feel it's unfair of me to bring those up, but others on the thread have, and I feel it's quite important. And seeing as you said 'all of you that have poor literacy,' I feel it's fair to respond.

I'm not saying that everyone should want to better themselves but agree that unless you have good basic literacy skills in some work you would be rejected.
Of course if you have sn and taken steps to find strategies to overcome difficulties then this should be taken into consideration.
There is no excuse if you want to do it, if you don't well that's fine too.
Personally, my greatest achievement was just scraping a pass at level 2 Maths and English. It didn't stop me doing a degree or PgCE

I agree writer and duckworth. In my profession, poor grammar and spelling does reflect negatively on the person.

I would hazard a guess to suggest up to 80-90% of the population would be unable to achieve the standard of English which is perceived to be required by Duckworth?.

According to Duckworth those people do not have the required level of English required for a job or career, this is absolute rubbish.

If people on this site believe what Duckworth has said, they really are out of touch, with the vast majority of the U.K population and their literacy standards.

And, you know, you did talk about SN.

I can't tell how much of your posts is ignorance and how much is plain nastiness, but I'm going to err on the side of ignorance.

Many people who have SN affecting their literacy can try extremely hard, and will still struggle. It is not a case of going on a basic training session or buying some book. Nor is it a case of teachers failing.

You cannot possibly tell whether or not such a person has made efforts to overcome their SN.

That's the legal side.

Poor education or lack of intelligence, yes, you're not required by law to male allowance for those things. But it is basic compassion on a chat forum to do so. Someone who has missed out on a lot of schooling, or who struggles to understand, deserves the same respect as anyone else you're interacting with in a casual way.

Hmmm, I partly agree, but the Equalities Act only requires an employer to make 'reasonable adjustments' for a person with disabilities, not to employ them regardless.

If a person has SN to the point were they are unable to do their job, there the protection afforded by the Act ends.

It is often assumed that the terms of the Equalities Act extend to protecting those with disabilities from any kind of discrimination in the workplace. This is not the case.

I am aware of that, duck, but what you described did not to me sound like reasonable adjustment. Of course, it is hard to know because we're chatting on the net.

But, obviously, being ignorant of the fact that many people make huge efforts to improve would hardly count as reasonable adjustment, so I find it difficult to believe you'd be sufficiently informed to cope with what's required, if you sincerely are this unaware.

LRD

It's neither ignorance, nor nastiness, more a desire to keep my business afloat and protect the livelihoods of my staff.

Well, perhaps your communication is at fault, then? It certainly comes across as both.

Sorry, LRD, you seem to have misunderstood.

The Equalities Act requires me to make reasonable adjustments to the working environment to accommodate those with disabilities.

In the case of SN, there is only so far I can go with this, as I expect all correspondence to be sent out with good standards of SPAG.

What do you think I should do?

Er, yes, I know what the Equalities Act says.

I have just explained to you that you don't seem to be particularly well-positioned to understand what would constitute a reasonable adjustment, given you fail to understand how people with disabilities relating to SPAG would function.

You see, even if you believe you've been ever so reasonable, if you're wrong, you may still end up on the wrong side of a lawsuit.

Obviously enough, in the case of SPAG, you'd make allowances either by arranging for someone to use a proofreader, or you'd accept they couldn't do the job because SPAG was central (eg., if this person is employed as a proofreader). What you cannot do, is your suggestion of sending someone on a quick course or requiring them to read a book and then assuming they'll be fine, since those will likely not have the desired effect.

YANBU OP. It's incredibly rude behaviour and usually the type of thing posted by people who have nothing original, creative, witty or interesting to add to a thread.

Ah, but I believe some people are so important, usual, they require us to act as if we're in a job interview every time we interact with them ...

Yes but what I am saying is people who appear to have poor skills on here probably don't in RL. They are just typing fast on mobiles with autocorrect and can't be arsed to proof read. You don't know if someone has SN or is like me or just has poor skills and people on here should not have to explain their posts.

I got a C in GCSE English and resat my level 2 maths months ago which was 10 times easier than my maths GCSE. A C is all I need to get a job so there is no point doing anything about it. I don't need to write in my job, can spell check and proof read if I have to. I am capable of handing in a CV without spelling and grammar errors even if I use a tool to check it for me.

On here I type fast, don't usually check what I have written and press post.

i just laugh to myself and ignore them OP you should to their just stuck up yummy mummy types whose lives are so boring and superficial they pick on people to make themselves look clever. ooh look i use no grammar someone shoot me

exactly ilovecoreyhaim ive done it loads of times so does everyone these days the amount of times ive posted a thread that hasnt made sense is unbelievable i kick myself for it but MN doesn't give you the option of deleting/editing posts i think they should FB does.