To think that it is very unfair, to pick someone up on spelling or grammar, just because you disagree with what they are saying.

[smokepole]

I posted recently on a ongoing topic in this section, I was picked up for my "appalling" grammar, my use of punctuation and for my sentence construction. I noticed that when my opinion changed , strangely enough my grammar or incorrect use of exclamation marks was not picked up upon. I have noticed that this happened on other threads as well. I think this is wrong for two reasons, the first being that it is a kind of bullying, intimating that because someone struggles with spelling, punctuation or correct sentence construction, that there are thick, therefore their argument or view point does not stand up. The other point it is very unfair to pick people up who have not benefited from higher education, or in my case not even education post GCSE'S, people need to realise this and accept that they have been fortunate to have been able to access higher education, but they need to give people like me some slack over my poor grammar or sentence construction.

YY, I think that's fair enough, wilson (though I do know doctors with less than excellent literacy - you just rarely see their work because they have secretaries and dictophones).

I just mean, it's an indication they'll be accurate, so it's reassuring. It's not proof of accuracy in itself.

I have to say - I do think we adapt. When I've spoken to elderly doctors who're female or ethnic minority, they all had really continual experiences of people simply not trusting them - not just now and again but constantly. Because obviously, what you need when you're already ill and stressed is a trustworthy white male figure. That's both an understandable thought process, and something you'd be rather shocked if your average 30-year-old came out with today.

So, we change.

I have no idea whether dictaphone has an a or an o.

Considering it is a failing Trust with a record of proven incompetence, I do think its highly relevant.

It sounds like your local trust has bigger problems than a badly spelt letter.

What do you think about Drs who slightly mispronounce words or make the occasional grammatical mistake due to English not being their first language?

I have no idea whether dictaphone has an a or an o.

I hope it is o as otherwise it ruins one of my favourite jokes:

'Can I borrow your dictophone?'

• 'Can't you use your fingers like everyone else?'

Oh, The Child In Time creeps me the fuck out. My then pastoral care guy gave it me to read when I was really upset about having had an abortion. I still cannot decide whether he was persuing some kind of 'punish the evil baby-killers' agenda or whether he was just really, really thick.

So do throw it across the room.

compos - It took me a moment, but I like that too.

Oh, he'd read it.

It was one of the more bizarre aspects of my interaction with him. But I'm sure it's a very well-written book or something, 'caterpult' notwithstanding.

fascicle ChelseyHandy - if you're worried about your surgeon or the hospital, why not find out about success rates for both in relation to your procedure? Much more relevant than speculating about a letter the surgeon may not have written

Where did I say or give the impression that I was "speculating about a letter the surgeon may not have written"?

Of course I bloody know the surgeon (who has not even been nominated yet) doesn't sit down and personally type out his own letters. It was a generic admin response describing a pathway system, a system which has caused much concern re lack of accurate diagnosis and timewasting.

I'm also unsure where I gave the impression incapable of researching these matters, without someone on an internet site suggesting it to me. Its not as if its an obvious thing that a person would have already most likely done, or something!

The generic point is that it gives a really bad impression of an organisation if they cannot produce letters without spelling mistakes, and presumably continue to send out such letters without correcting them.

Yep!

Do you mean the generic point, or the general point?

I am actually asking, not sniping.

But yes, it does give a poor impression. I wish people didn't do it, and I do think wilson's point here about vulnerable people and confidence is important.

ikea What do you think about Drs who slightly mispronounce words or make the occasional grammatical mistake due to English not being their first language?

I do not care. Its obvious when someone makes a mistake due to English not being their first spoken language, less excusable when its done regarding written English with time to spell check or read over it.

As an aside, why do so many posters on mumsnet abbreviate "doctor" to "dr"? Its not as if "doctor" is a very long word. Whats the point behind it? (I don't mind it, before I am criticised, I just don't understand it).

I don't think it's obvious to everyone.

When my granny was in hospital, I realized she was quite bothered by one particular nurse (who was excellent), because she couldn't follow her accent. It was not a strong accent, to my ear, but to an 84 year old woman with brain cancer, it was incomprehensible and it really unsettled her, because she knew she was failing to understand other things too.

If you're reasonably well in your mind, and quite used to meeting people with different accents, these things are obvious. To others, not so much.

The issue is, should we always try to go for the lowest common denominator and say that this nurse shouldn't be allowed to work in case she ends up treating a woman like my granny (or that a GP who mixes up their and there shouldn't be able to work), or not? I don't think it's simple when it's to do with health, btw. I just think we should acknowledge it's not simple.

LRD I mean the generic point, as I chose that word to refer to the class of things without prejudice to the generality, so as to give a stronger sense of emphasis than the word "general" would have given.

Ah, thank you. I have only heard the term in the context of maths. What class of things do you mean, and which generality? Sorry, I'm not nit-picking, I just don't follow the distinction you're making. Ignore me if it's not important.

The class of people who don't think SPAG important and who then apply this thinking as an excuse to a professional application, and other similar classes showing a common approach (take your pick). In other words, the application of the ejusdem generis rule.

I'm a bird of little brain. I'd have used 'general point' there. But if 'generic point' is common usage, fair enough.

(And thanks for explaining why you did.)

ChelsyHandy
Where did I say or give the impression that I was "speculating about a letter the surgeon may not have written"?

Right here...

I recently got gegot a letter from the NHS containing two spelling mistakes, one of which changed the meaning of what I think they were trying to say. I knew what they meant, but it made me nervous about a forthcoming procedure, in that I got the impression their competency might be low, or they might be slapdash and careless.

And here...

I would expect a doctor or surgeon to have a good general education including good literary skills as well as in medicine.

So why bother speculating about the doctor's 'literary skills' (that's not the same as literacy skills, by the way), following a letter regarding your procedure, if you now think the letter was a 'generic admin response'?

I'm also unsure where I gave the impression incapable of researching these matters, without someone on an internet site suggesting it to me. Its not as if its an obvious thing that a person would have already most likely done, or something!

I didn't suggest that you weren't capable. But if you're implying that an imperfect letter might be correlated to a slapdash procedure, that would indicate that you haven't yet done the research that matters - the success of the procedure in relation to the hospital and surgeon. If you had, your concerns about letter writing would become less relevant.

Oh, that's true.

I have good literary skills but shite literacy skills.

I was wondering at what age should you have been taught correct use of grammar, punctuation and apostrophes ?.

Personally I went though the whole of my schooling, not understanding when and how to use SPAG correctly . I don't remember actually being taught how to use punctuation or apostrophes , I also can not remember any teacher correcting any spelling or grammar mistakes.

Compos- I hope it is o as otherwise it ruins one of my favourite jokes:

Alas, it's an a.

but it's still a good joke.