To think that it is very unfair, to pick someone up on spelling or grammar, just because you disagree with what they are saying.

[smokepole]

I posted recently on a ongoing topic in this section, I was picked up for my "appalling" grammar, my use of punctuation and for my sentence construction. I noticed that when my opinion changed , strangely enough my grammar or incorrect use of exclamation marks was not picked up upon. I have noticed that this happened on other threads as well. I think this is wrong for two reasons, the first being that it is a kind of bullying, intimating that because someone struggles with spelling, punctuation or correct sentence construction, that there are thick, therefore their argument or view point does not stand up. The other point it is very unfair to pick people up who have not benefited from higher education, or in my case not even education post GCSE'S, people need to realise this and accept that they have been fortunate to have been able to access higher education, but they need to give people like me some slack over my poor grammar or sentence construction.

I do take your point, but I've just had a quick google, and 2.8% of children in the UK have a statement of SN.

That is a tiny minority, and I don't think it is reasonable to attempt to attribute all cases of poor literacy to SN, when the facts demonstrate that this just isn't the case.

I agree that poor literacy is an issue, but is is a very fixable one in the overwhelming majority of cases. The only reason it remains unfixed is that people, on the whole, can't be arsed and expect the rest of us to just accommodate them. I believe this to be wrong.

I have no time in my busy schedule to further my education to improve my English

You do have time, you have just chosen not to use it to further this end. That is a choice that you are entitled to make, but at the same time, people will judge you for it.

Somebody picked me up on my spelling the other day and although I have worked hard to overcome my problems, the odd mistake can creep in.
I am severely dyslexic and was bullied terribly throughout my schooling by the teachers. I knew what I was in for every day and it ruined my childhood as I lived in constant fear and dread.
There are lots of people like me out there, who either slipped through the net or have learning disabilities.
Several posters picked the person up on being petty, trying to score points to win an argument.
However, I must admit to doing it myself once, even though it was done in good spirits i.e I stated I had only just learned this fact myself and was proud of my new found knowledge and wanted to spread the word, it wasn't taken in the spirit intended.
I suppose some people don't like being corrected and others take great pleasure in it.
For me, well I like to learn new things about my language.

My DD gets extra help in school and struggles but does not have a statement although outside agencies are involved with her education like 1000s of other children

No I don't have time, I am a single parent to 3 dds, look after my 90 yr old GM and work 4 nights a week till 1 am. Believe me I haven't got time and is not high on my list of priorities.

Plus I don't particularly care if they judge me on it. I know enough to get by. If people want to judge me that's their look out.

Oh, I am frustrated. I've only just caught up with the thread and it is getting to the argy-bargy stage, which means it's not a great point for this question.

Hey ho, going to ask anyway: does anyone ever learn from corrections? I do, because I tend to learn from words and will remember an explanation for years (learning by doing is not my thing; I'll continue to do something practical wrong time after time - explain it to me and I'll rarely make the same mistake again).

I know that often the comments are meant rudely and are used to belittle. Does anyone actually say to themselves, hmm, I'll take that little nugget away with me, even though I want to poke you repeatedly with a stick?

Just for you Duckworth.

Duckworth many many children have a sld or ld and don't have a statement, many adults will have undiagnosed dyslexia. It is thought that 10% of the British population is dyslexic.

In some ways I hate being dyslexic but actually if I had to choose to not be dyslexic and have perfect written English but to loose my ability to easily learn a spoken foreign language and to be able to have an almost perfect accent when speaking a foreign languge also my photographic skills all of which I believe I am exceptionally good at because of the way I look at the word due to my dyslexia I would keep my dyslexia despite ignorant people like you judging me.

Duckworth many many children have a sld or ld and don't have a statement, many adults will have undiagnosed dyslexia. It is thought that 10% of the British population is dyslexic.

In some ways I hate being dyslexic but actually if I had to choose to not be dyslexic and have perfect written English but to loose my ability to easily learn a spoken foreign language and to be able to have an almost perfect accent when speaking a foreign languge also my photographic skills all of which I believe I am exceptionally good at because of the way I look at the word due to my dyslexia I would keep my dyslexia despite ignorant people like you judging me.

duck, no, I didn't raise it - it had already been mentioned. You just didn't notice, I assume.

FWIW, statements are much rarer than SNs, and even people with diagnosed SNs are obviously not going to be the total number of people who actually have SNs (seeing as it costs a fair bit to get a diagnosis).

I did, though, put disability on the level with poor education or low intelligence and I'm curious why you're so interested in the disability side of things. Is it ok, in your book, to pick on people who're not well educated or not very bright?

I do get that it's a little irritating sometimes, but you're acting as if you're totally justified in being as rude as you like, without thinking that some people might be trying pretty hard to communicate in the best English they can manage.

You got me!
I can do a lot of things but I don't do them enough for them to stick in my head and so I can't always be bothered to go throughout the steps again.
I thought going out to get school shoes for my son was more important but now I find I have time to post a knob.
Tech savvy I take to mean that I can but not an expert.

notnow - I occasionally have a lightbulb moment from corrections, such as when some clever person comes up with a mnemonic for a spelling that works for me. But more often, I don't.

It's usually quite easy to tell who intends a correction kindly and who doesn't, though.

Spelling, grammar and sentence construction is nothing to do with education after 16. In my day When I was at school, we did some at primary school and followed it up in grammar school in my case secondary school. It's no excuse to suggest it should have been taught before you left school.

I beg to differ.

I teach HE and I do spend time working with them on SPAG and sentence construction, if it is needed. Mostly that involves trying to get them to teach themselves, but it's still part of the job. And I'm post-PhD but my ex supervisors still try to teach me.

Duckworth - Who pissed in your porridge this morning?

I've worked with many, many people who are 'well educated', can write well and have no problems with spelling. They have no common sense though and come across as quite dense when you speak to them.

One Consultant I work with who is very highly regarded and excellent in her speciality can't write for shit. She's also the most obnoxious twat I've ever met.

I would prefer a lovely, funny, compassionate 'uneducated' poster over a pedantic, rude and twatty 'highly educated' poster any day.

It's no excuse to suggest it should have been taught before you left school.

I meant that it's no excuse to suggest that you expect it to be taught after GCSEs.

Oh, I see - you mean, some people might have missed the teaching early on and can't catch up? If so, I agree.

OP YADNBU. It's the hypocracy (oh fuck I know that's wrong CBA to google) that gets me.

Any time that there is a discussion about food, of the 'I can't afford vegetables so I have to feed my children on frozen pizza' variety, anyone that suggests that seasonal vegetables and pulses are cheap and healthy gets shouted down with cries of 'but what if they don't have a supermarket, pan, knife that they can use, or what if their electric has run out, or what if they are depressed, etc etc etc etc.

There are always armies of posters that come up with reasons why it might not be easy to cook from scratch and how it is much more expensive than Iceland pizza and chips which it isn't.

But people who can't manage to cook from scratch because they haven't had chance to learn or have SNs are likely to be the exact same people that don't have perfect SPaG and if they did come on here asking for help with feeding their children with something other than Iceland pizza, they might not write their post in perfect degree level English and they would get snippy comments on their written English and if they were a new poster they would probably think 'well fuck it you bitches, I know where I'm not wanted' and not post again.

Anyone that is mentally fragile would probably get quite upset about it all.

I like that the standard of posting on Mumsnet is usually very good, mostly because I'm and old luddite that can't read txtspk, but I think that pulling up other posters on often minor errors in spelling or use of their/there/they're etc is inappropriate and incredibly rude.

English is a comparitively (sp!) complex language. I am very impressed with those with a reasonable grasp of it. Yes, the other thing, as well as education issues, English is not the first, or even second, lanuguage of everyone on here.

Thank you for your views and the different opinions expressed .

I would like to answer the question by Duckworth ,asking if you see your grammar and spelling punctuation, by saying that a lot of problems for me are caused when I am either posting on the phone or in a hurry ( I am not able to speed post, when I try to my spelling and grammar go awry) .
I am aware of courses that improve spelling , grammar and punctuation, and general abilities .This is the reason why I have committed to studying with the Open University from October studying DD 102 Social Sciences, hopefully going on to study Politics after completing an access course this year.

The point about literacy standards being poorer today than yesteryear, is in stark contrast to what I have seen from my 3 DC. The standards of literacy they are showing , far exceed the standards that I nor any of my friends attained ( I got a D grade GCSE English, I don't think anyone got any better). This is of course down to highly professional teachers helping pupils achieve, their potential and also identifying the problems they may have in certain areas.

However, back to the point , please don't judge someone on incorrect grammar or wrong use of punctuation/exclamation marks, usually because they were not taught how to use them correctly.

OK, so I've just read that post back and it is littered with spelling errors and I DO NOT FUCKING CARE!

TAKE THAT SPELLING NAZIS.

I admit, that I do find badly written, poorly spelt posts jarring to read, but would never point it out to the poster.

Text speak I pretty much just ignore altogether, and move onto another thread.

This is an oft-debated topic, and I suppose the crux of it is, yes, it's a 'chat' forum, but the means of communicating is via the written word. So it does have to be up to scratch to a certain extent for the convo to flow.

That's obviously not to say it has to be perfect at all, but the mistakes are there in black and white for all to see, and sometimes you do need to re-read posts to get the context, in order to understand the overall jist. Which slows things down.

I still maintain actually pointing stuff out marks you out as an arse.

I also hate grammar and spelling mistake, though I am not above them myself, but the middle of a discussion is not the time to point them out, if ever, This is the weapon of someone who is otherwise losing the argument.