to not want my 3yo to go to a petting farm without me

[pianointhedark]

DD is 3.2. Her preschool are doing a trip to a petting farm, which I feel reluctant to let her go on.

My main concern is hygiene. With the best will in the world the staff cannot be watching all the children all the time, and obviously it would only take a moment for her hand to go into her mouth before it had been washed. Obviously I could impress upon her not to do that, but she's only 3 and I can't expect her to understand why or remember.

I did ask whether they needed any parent helpers, but the answer was no. I then told a little white lie - that DD can be wary of animals and for that reason I would prefer to be with her, but again the answer was no - apparently they can't allow one parent to go because then all will want to go and they're sure DD will be fine.

AIBU to not want her to go? Sometimes I worry that I am being overly PFB and would appreciate some MN perspective.

What I never understand about parents with these kinds of issues is what they think their presence will achieve.
Unless you are going to hold her arms down or constantly bellow "wash your hands" your daughter is just as likely to put her hand in her mouth with you as she is with the nursery staff.
I am a former Nursery Nurse and TA and have been on loads of farm trips.
We reminded the children at the beginning of each session about washing hands, we carried and used sanitiser often. There is a lot of planning that goes on prior to this kind of outing. Nobody wants a child to get sick.

If I were in your position OP I'd keep her off pre-school that day and take her another day where you can supervise her.

As a parent of a child who constantly has her hands in her mouth (and is older than OP's child) and needs reminding to wash hands / not lick railings I wouldn't be confident about my child going on a nursery visit being supervised closely enough.

What I never understand about parents with these kinds of issues is what they think their presence will achieve.

My presence prevented dd sticking her thumb in her mouth the whole time. There weren't enough staff to prevent the children doing that when dd visited a petting farm 10 years ago. I'm sure it is better now as nurseries and farms are much more aware and there are sinks everywhere but that hasn't always been the case.

You can simply choose not to send her ! They would probably be in small , closely supervised groups with wipes/antibac on hand. Even then it is likely to be the smaller animals (rabbits etc.) which get handled rather than lambs. If your risk assessment radar is already going off you won't trust the staff to do it as well as you might, whatever reassurance they might offer.

Ask to see their risk assessment and ask them how they plan to keep the children safe.

The risk assessment is a plan for how to keep the children safe. If the nursery staff showed the OP the risk assessment and she then asked how they plan to keep the children safe, they would probably either be very put out at the OPs apparent lack of trust in their professionalism, or they might just think she think she wasn't very bright

OP you are being incredibly PFB about it, but just don't let her go! No point in coming on mn and wringing your hands over it.

And of you agree that dc under 5 shouldn't go to petting farms, then why even ask.

Goodness knows how children who are raised on farms survive!!

Once upon a time I would have been in the "don't be a neurotic mother" camp. But now I can see why the OP would be worried.

I don't know if anybody else has posted a similar story (not read the entire thread, sorry) but I got E. coli 0157 last summer. I was hospitalised, hooked up to drips, haemorrhaging from my colon, in absolute agony, lost 3 stones, spent 4 days in isolation and had Pubic Health waiting for me on the phone by the time I got to hospital. Luckily, it didn't progress to HUS and I've had no real long term effects. But, it lives in my memory and I'd rather give birth to a 10lb baby naturally without pain relief twice daily than repeat that experience.

So, would I let my 3 year old go to a petting zoo now? Not without me. No chance. I would not, for anything in the world, want one of my children to go through what I did.

So, don't be so hard on the OP; she's got valid concerns.

Not necessarily, Rhonda. Given that the Op is particularly concerned, the nursery will answer her specific questions in addition to the more general risk assessment they have to produce. At least, I would hope so.

Any nursery should welcome the chance to set the Op's mind at rest. I'd certainly be very concerned about one that was either "put out" or judged the Op to be stupid for asking questions.

My 2yo goes to our local petting farm on a weekly basis, it's cheap and he loves it. He has been going regularly since he was about 18mo and E. coli never occurred to me.

Worried now after these stories! We wash his hands at the end, but he often tries to eat the carrots in the bags of feed they give us

If you feel that strongly OP the don't let her go.

I think your offer to help out was probably declined as they may have assumed that instead of helping out with all the children you would have just hovered over your own and ignored the rest.

You will not always be there to protect her from germs OP and if I were you I would be concerned that an excessive hygienic attitude can lead to it's own issues just try and keep it balanced.

Sorry not read the whole thread but princess there are many many disease that animals and humans can share. In fact I think that something like 60% of all diseases are zoonotic (can infect both humans and animals). I am a research scientist and I work on a zoonotic disease, it has been mentioned on this thread.

Here are a few example of zoonotic diseases you can catch from animals:

anthrax - cows
TB - cows
cryptosporidium - farm animals
salmonella - reptiles/poultry
leptosporidiosis - rats/rodents
lymes disease - animals, transferred by ticks
west nile virus - animals, transmitted by mosquitoes
malaria - animals - transferred by mosquitoes
toxocara - dogs
toxoplasma - cats
enzootic abortion - sheep
ringworm - farm animals
orf - sheep
giardisis - farm animals
e. coli 0157 - farm animals

These are just the ones that came to mind without looking them up. You absolutely cannot say that getting infections/diseases from animals is rare.

I would let my child go (if I had one) but you are correct to say that there is a risk. Also, many of these diseases (crypto for one) will not be removed from hands/killed by the use of antibacterial gels. You need to wash hands properly in warm water with soap.

There is also a risk of getting crypto from swimming pools and drinking water so not just animals that are a risk.

I'm confused. I understand that this is A Thing, but if it's a Big Enough Thing To Worry A Lot About then surely we should be hearing about many very sick farm-living children?

I feel for you, OP, as I know what it's like to have A Thing about something - and it is up to you. Your child will not be scarred for life if she doensn't get to go. But I do get the sense that you might benefit from letting her go.

I would let mine go without a second thought, and the only tiny minor worry I would have would be about miniature ponies. The TEMPER on some of those little bastards, honestly.

I didn't see anything in the OPs post which made me think she's habitually worried about bacteria. I do wonder how many of the people suggesting that she gets some help for her OTT anxiety have been on the E. coli diet recently? I'll wager none.

If I were in the OPs shoes I'd be insisting that I went with her. That way at least I could keep an eye out for her shoving her hands in her mouth. I had a three year old once who couldn't keep her fingers out of her mouth. She's nearly 15 now and she's not much better!

You didn't say "asking questions", though tanith.

You said she should read the risk assessment, then ask how the nursery plans to keep the children safe and I said, why would she ask what their plans are when that is precisely what a risk assessment is.

If, on the other hand, the OP raised an issue that had been left out of the risk assessment in error, I don't see a problem.

Children who grow up on farm possibly don't get ill because they have constant low-level exposure to some of these parasites/bacteria etc and probably have some immunity to them where as non-farming children don't have this immunity so are more likely to get sick.

iseesheep, the problem with the nursery allowing one parent volunteer to come on the trip to supervise just her child is that (a) it takes up a place on the bus which could have been filled by a volunteer willing to supervise a whole group and (b) it will mark the OP's DD out as someone special, who needs 1:1 supervision when group supervision is fine for all the others.

If that didn't label her as a habitual worrier, I don't know what would.

Blimey, how do any of is farmer children survive?!

My ds is 16 months. We live on a farm. He regularly has a good old lick of his dad's dirty boots and is fine and dandy.

suburban I wouldn't give a monkey's what the nursery staff thought to be frank. And the OP doesn't need to take up a space on the transport, she can drive her daughter herself. It's what a lot of parents at my kids' nursery used to do. It saved on transport costs. Nobody marked my children out as having a neurotic mother and if they had I'd have thought they were a pretty shitty nursery and ought to choose their staff better.

I know what I said, Rhonda, and I know what you said.

The Op is entitled to ask for further assurance on how the nursery plans to keep the children safe without being judged by anyone.

Being labelled as a habitual worrier would surely come from demonstrating worries more than on one occasion.

Farmer friends of mine (admittedly only two individual families, but seeing as it's anecdote a gogo tonight...) are way more cautious than some of the tales recounted on this thread would have you believe.

I'm not saying that the Op should stop her child from going, I'm just a bit surprised by the lack of understanding on this thread.

iseesheep so you think it's ok for her to go as a parent volunteer and look after only her own child?

We have parent volunteers who sometimes drive their child to a trip for various reasons. But none of them have ever come to supervise just their own child. In fact, as PP have said, in most settings they would be specifically given a group without their own child in.

Not that long ago families used to share their homes with their livestock for warmth during the winter. Ok, child mortality was a lot higher then, but if it was mega dangerous and there was a clear link between sharing space with animals and illness then I think they would've just fired another blanket on the bed.

All joking apart OP, you need to do a risk analysis on this. Chance of getting E. coli from a goat, chance of injury in a traffic collision whilst on the coach on the way to the petting zoo, chance of injury in a car crash on the way to nursery.... Unless your dd lives in a vacuum there are going to be times where she comes into contact with nasties when there you aren't behind her with a bottle of hand sanitiser. As she gets older you'll increasingly have to balance the risk of something maybe happening with her definitely missing out on a fun experience with her friends and peers.

suburban Nope. I didn't suggest she went as a parent volunteer. She can look after her own daughter. That makes fewer numbers to be looked after and in any case, the nursery said they didn't need volunteers.

The nursery/volunteer argument isn't actually what this thread is about though is it? It's about whether or not she's being unreasonable in having some concerns.

I didn't go as a parent volunteer. I made my own way to the farm. I don't think the nursery staff were very happy with it but I didn't really care. I was glad I went.