To wonder why the caste system is tolerated in this day and age?

[whoyouknow]

Was reading the news story about girls who were raped and murdered in India and it said they were targeted because of their low caste status. I know that people are capable of doing awful things to others who they perceive to be different, either due to race, religion or gender, but the caste system itself seems odd as all other religions at least pay lip service to the idea that we are all born equal.

Yes it is odd indeed in these days.

I dont know much about it and i would like to. Have you or any poster read any books about it that would recommend?

The first Commonwealth Declaration against apartheid attached similar laws.

The first draft said law and it was changed at the behest of the Indian Government who did not want to include customary law such as that of the caste system. And that was sixty years ago. Not much has changed.

Discriminating against people due to caste is actually now illegal in India. Unfortunately it hasn't stopped it from happening. The problem is that there are still so many people in very rural areas (particularly mountainous areas bordering the Himalayas) and who are illiterate that the government can't reach everyone.

No I haven't read any books Laquitar, might be interesting to do so but I imagine it was originally started by the rich/powerful to keep people 'in their place'. That's interesting Andrewofgg, I had no idea.

India isn't in the same "this day and age" as we are in the west. I think it's progressing a lot. But you'll still get occasional incidents like this. The fact that there is such a big furore about it IS progress, little consolation that may be to the victims.

As TucsonGirl said... that and, attaching our own progress and morals to India and other emergent countries is unreasonable. They don't have our history and have a different path to take, which won't be to our timescale.

It is getting better. We should be supporting the changes not handwringing over the status quo.

Because your (and my) idea of what is tolerable in 'this day and age' is a culturally-determined one. If we had grown up in another culture, it wouldn't be automatically obvious that we are born equal - it would be perfectly obvious that we are not.

We might, maybe, have an idea that things shouldn't be like that, but that would be a complicated idea we had grown to understand. Not something we'd absorbed from all sides since we were tiny.

My DH used to go to a gym in a city close to us, he would be working out and some Indian men would be waiting to come in. My DH asked another Indian what the problem was he was told they were a different caste.

I didn't realise that one of the contributing factors to this kind of awful situation is the lack of sanitation.

Because people have to go some distance from their homes to 'go to the loo' (in cities as well as in rural areas) it leaves them vulnerable to this kind of hideous attack.

So if perhaps less money went on joining the Space Race and more on providing clean water and sanitation these women would be safer.

I suggest you look up caste system. It is a class just the same as wc, mc, uc.
Some may link this with a particular religion but many in a caste system don't follow a particular religion.

Well, it is if you are in one of the four varnas... but be an untouchable and
you might live a different reality.

As for some of the others (Dalits, I think) we buggered that up - the Colonial we, that is.

It really isn't just a matter of class. It is a mater of blood, internal ethnic differentiation, hatred and apartheid.

If the far flung rural people and the inner city pavement dwellers were allowed access to education, sanitation and the jobs that the great financial growth of the country has caused, then the whole issue of caste would become less important.

However it is currently being strengthened by a financial inequity.

Officially it's not legal but the state in which that happened is renowned for being pretty backward even within India as well. Unofficially, it's still pretty much prevalent wrt marriage for example if you look at the matrimonial ads in Indian newspapers. It isn't just about 'high' and 'low' - generally people prefer to marry within their own community whatever it's perceived status is. They will have their own cuisines, customs, style of dressing, means of supporting each other economically etc. The status is not necessarily related to wealth - you can have very wealthy communities whose caste status is generally considered a bit on the low side and plenty of poor high-castes (eg Brahmin priests).

To be honest, even English speaking countries pretty much have an unspoken caste system as do most countries.

A very good 30 year old friend of mine, who has always lived in the UK, has been forbidden from marrying the love of her life because he is of a slightly lower caste. She is sad about this but accepts her parents' decision.

Wtaf.

I suppose in many ways it's the same principle as people in this country who've had racism or bigotry drummed into them from an early age. It's all they've known and it's reinforced by the wider community. I'd imagine it's particularly in the interests of the higher castes to keep the status quo. After all it gives them someone to look down on and feel better about themselves. Wanting to look down on others is a universal trait IME.

I worked with a guy who was modern I every other way, he'd been born and raised here by Indian parents. He wouldn't have anything to do with an colleague of ours who was also of Indian extraction. he could avoid it. She'd done nothing wrong, he said she was too low a caste. It's what his parents had taught him but his behaviour was very unpopular with everyone. The unpopularity of his views didn't seem to have much impact.

I dont know much about it and i would like to. Have you or any poster read any books about it that would recommend?

fiction or non?

"white tiger" (booker prize winner) and "a fine balance" are two good ones I have read. both fiction.

I would like to understand more about it. A friend of a friend fought tooth and nail to marry her higher caste husband 3 yrs ago. Now they have a DD, I was astounded to hear her state firmly that her DD will not be allowed to 'marry down'! I am not sure it is religious exactly, at least that is not how it has come across to me. I guess the gap between rich and poor is so much wider in developing countries that it is not all that surprising that they retain attitudes that we have largely done away with here as changes have been made.

Hi written
thank you for the books. I will have a look as i still have birthday vouchers from last month!
Thanks!

Not being a bigot, but there you have a very backward country. In Europe and America a hundred years ago things were not great either for women and if you're poor.

Another fiction book that deals with the caste system: The God Of Small Things (which just so happens to be my favourite book ever!). And perhaps a lighter read: The Marriage Bureau For Rich People.

Oh yes. The God of small things was in my list ages ago but for some reason i then forgotten about it.
Thank you Maid!

White tiger - brilliant

I am British and live in India and after marrying my Indian husband I am now classed as ''most backward caste''!!

From my experience here, everything you say about India, the opposite is also true.

Although arranged married to someone from your own caste / community is the norm here, more and more young people are choosing to have ''love marriages'' and inter caste marriage (like my PIL) and inter religion marriage (Like me and my DH) is becoming more common.

For College / Uni / Government jobs, there is a number of positions set aside for people from ''scheduled castes'' (formerly dalits / untouchables) as historically they are the most deprived.

There is a big business going on here with people selling fake ''scheduled caste certificates'' so people from other castes can get into a job / uni under the SC quota!

My own FIL is from a ''most backward caste'' and is a hugely successful and wealthy businessman.

I don't support the case system but I think Westerners are very hypocritical as they completely deny the inequities imposed by skin colour and religion. I speak from personal experience of being of Indian origin, married to a white guy from a Catholic background and living in Australia for over 25 years.

Have you ever heard of Hindus invading other countries and destroying their religions and cultures by imposing the caste system the way that so-called egalitarian religions, particularly Islam and Christianity have done and continue to do so?

I find in Australia people from minority religions are expected to contribute to Christian festivities but receive little in return, in India we had holidays for all the religions and there was a lot of reciprocity. The Indian parliament also has members from most of the religions and language groups- can you point to any Western system which has the same?

There are plenty of white people who do not support marriage to people of a different colour and religion. Can you name any prominent white leader who has a partner from a different religion like Mrs Gandhi and various other leading Indian women did.