AIBU to have found childbirth unbearably agonising?

[Caff2]

Just that. I had an elective section with ds2 because of it. And yet I have friends and read on here of people who "did it naturally" or "just had a bit of gas and air at the end".

Why was childbirth so awfully painful for me?

People kept telling me you forget, I haven't forgotten and I'm pregnant again. I'm dreading it.

Can we just orientate ourselves to the truth a bit here, which is this:

More women have pain relief now that at any point in history.

More women have epidurals now than at any point, and the number is increasing.

More women have planned c/s now than at any point in the past.

Fewer than half of all women have a birth which doesn't inv

Can we just orientate ourselves to the truth a bit here, which is this:

More women have pain relief now that at any point in history.

More women have epidurals now than at any point, and the number is increasing.

More women have planned c/s now than at any point in the past.

Fewer than half of all women have a birth which doesn't involve

• an episiotomy
• emergency surgery
• forceps
• ventouse
• syntocinon

1 in 4 labours is induced.

95% of births take place in a medical setting.

Yes there is a now a push towards changing this state of affairs - not because midwives are sadistic but because everyone who is involved in delivering maternity care recognises that this situation is physically and emotionally harming women, is costing the NHS a fortune it can't afford, and isn't improving the outcomes for babies.

Following the logic from some posts here we should have fewer unhappy mothers, because such a high percentage of women now have epidurals or c/s. I don't think this is the case do you?

That's an excellent post, Lem.

Some labours are much more painful than others, for a huge variety of reasons. However, our interventions in hospital can CAUSE pain, or make the pain of labour harder to cope with. If these interventions are judicious, necessary and timely, then of course the increased pain/decreased ability to cope must just be accepted and managed appropriately by administering pain relief. However, a HUGE number of these interventions turn out not to have been necessary, as the Place of Birth study proves, and many more women are wanting pain relief they may otherwise have not wanted. If they get it, they have a much greater risk of further intervention, and if they don't then they may feel traumatised and let down.

Bottom line...if you, as an individual need pain relief in labour then that's one thing, and that should be available in a timely manner. On a national scale, in terms of policy, a push for women to labour in an MLU or at home if suitable and a push for decreased levels of intervention by obstetricians WILL improve outcomes, satisfaction, and cost.

This is a genuine question, but what older statistics do we have to compare these more recent ones with? I'd love to see them - I think it would really help compare how much of the medical intervention is possibly unnecessary.

For example, it would be interesting to know how many women prior to the past few decades of increased medical intervention tore, as opposed to those who have episiotomies.

Ditto I do think you have to see the increased rate of emcs's and the use of ventouse and forceps against improved neonatal survival rates - though I have no idea how much of a correlation there is.

Bottom line...if you, as an individual need pain relief in labour then that's one thing, and that should be available in a timely manner. On a national scale, in terms of policy, a push for women to labour in an MLU or at home if suitable and a push for decreased levels of intervention by obstetricians WILL improve outcomes, satisfaction, and cost.

Just hopping on quickly from work, to say that surely those two sentences above are mutually incompatible? If women are 'pushed' to labour in MLUs and at home, where epidurals are unavailable, then they won't have pain relief available in a timely manner, if at all, will they?

Oh and please don't count paracetamol and baths as pain relief, that's just insulting.

Proper emotional care and support at every stage is another thing, of course, and crucial.

Fewer unhappy mothers compared to what? I don't think anybody even asked my grandmother if she was happy with her birth experience.

YANBU, it depends on so many factors, my first labour was utterly utterly horrific and I'm still traumatised by it 10 years later. My other two were almost fun!

Dd1 was in a horrible position, my cx were on top of one another but ineffective at actually doing anything, I was stressed and tense and stuck on the bed.

Dd2 and DS were perfectly positioned and my cx were short, close, and super effective and I laboured and birthed both of them in less time than I spent pushing with dd1.

Don't beat yourself up over it. It just is

Following the logic from some posts here we should have fewer unhappy mothers, because such a high percentage of women now have epidurals or c/s. I don't think this is the case do you?

From what I've seen, in general, the ones who post about their unhappy experiences are the ones who received insufficient pain relief.

I'm quite prepared to believe that their bad experiences weren't enhanced, and were possibly exacerbated by, being on a badly managed and funded hospital conveyor belt, but to say that the pain was mainly to do with just 'being in hospital' is a bit of a leap.

I'm still deeply cynical about the financial motives behind getting women to labour away from hospital and pain relief.

Probably a bit cheeky of me to contribute as I had my two DCs over 40 years ago! The first was a back to back 48 hour labour ending in a forceps delivery that did an awful lot of damage. I still remember it as clear as yesterday. And that was despite the fact that I had a positive attitude. I never did the screaming moaning bit though because I am too repressed in front of strangers and was determined to 'woman up' (which may not have helped actually). No epidurals then of course.

My second was the right way round, born at home, only a 12 hour labour. no pain relief needed (despite me having been really nervous that time after my first experience).

So, nothing to do with pain thresholds, nerves etc. - just good old fashioned luck.

I am only posting though to ask if psychoprophylaxis - a method using different breathing patterns to stay on top of contractions is still used? You gradually shift your breathing as contractions get stronger, starting with low level abdominal breathing, switch to chest breathing and later to breathing at throat level.

I found it amazingly helpful in staying in control and working through the contractions in my second labour. I've also used it at the dentist so never need injections for e.g. fillings or anything.

If it has gone out of fashion it may be worth reviving as it could help some women I think. It was called the Lamazze method, though I never bought into the whole tree hugging woo aspect of it, just the breathing.

My waters went early with DD (my first baby). I truely cannot describe how awful the pain was, right from the start. After 14 hours at home I'd had enough and hadn't really been coping for some time. I was only 4cm when I arrived at hospital. I cried for two reasons, a) that I was only 4cm and the pain was already beyond my endurance and, b) I was 4cm so could go to the labour ward where they had the pain relief. My baby nearly died. I had an emcs and afterwards stupid people told me I should have been more relaxed

DS was a planned section. I went into labour the week before the section date, and briefly considered trying to do it normally, but after 6 hours of painful contractions (no broken waters this time) and only being 2cm, I chose to go straight for the section.

I think better care (or ANY care) in early labour might help. Not being told to take fucking paracetamol and go home, feeling like you're a total wimp. A friend of mine had been going for 48 hours and was only 3cm. She'd already been sent home twice. When they wanted to send her home a third time she refused and inconveniently lay down on the floor in the doorway to triage until they did something to help her. They weren't even busy FFS. One other woman in a 15 bed labour ward!

Yes, some older statistics on outcomes and experiences would be interesting. Treatment of women in childbirth has changed so much over the last century. My parents were born at home, as was most of their generation in the UK - due to lack of hospital facilities, not medical ideology. What were outcomes like then?

Whilst there is no doubt that many women birthing in hospitals have been badly treated over the decades in terms of 'conveyor belting', for want of a better term, I'd still rather be conveyor-belted than stuck giving birth at home with severe birth complications and no immediate access to life-saving doctors and equipment should the need arise.

"This is a genuine question, but what older statistics do we have to compare these more recent ones with?"

Birthplace study looked at women deemed low risk at the start of labour - comprehensive criteria. All in all, for every 100 women labouring in obstetric settings it appeared an extra 9 (approx - depending on first or subsequent baby and home or birth centre setting) would have emergency surgery compared to midwife led settings. No improvement in outcomes for babies.

"From what I've seen, in general, the ones who post about their unhappy experiences are the ones who received insufficient pain relief."

Two comments from me - sometimes all the pain relief available can be given and it's still not sufficient: 1 in 8 epidurals leave the mother needing more pain relief.

Second - how can you 'control for' the impact of feeling ignored and powerless in labour, which is what a mother feels when her request for pain relief is disregarded? How much distress is caused by the pain and how much by poor care and panic?

"but to say that the pain was mainly to do with just 'being in hospital' is a bit of a leap. "

But nobody has said this. What has been said is that patterns of care in institutional settings can make labour much harder to bear.

Took me at least 2 years after dc1 to even entertain the possibility of dc2 - had so many nightmares about 3 day induced labour, PPH and manual retrieval the first few months after birth. I'm expecting dc2 (4 yr age gap) and terrified. I'm definitely not tough, I'm having nightmares about another pph. I wish other women were kinder about just how bloody awful it can be - none of our families were remotely sympathetic and because it took us a while to update people due to post delivery complications we even had sh1tty texts about their worry.

"I'd still rather be conveyor-belted than stuck giving birth at home with severe birth complications and no immediate access to life-saving doctors and equipment should the need arise."

Homebirth is no more risky for your baby and it's less risky for you if it is your second or subsequent birth. That's because the risk you take in giving birth without an operating theatre 10 yards from your front door is offset by the risks to you and your baby of labouring in a hospital. Both settings have a different set of risks. But women are only ever informed of the risks of home birth and not of hospital birth.

LeMis, I meant comparing it to the experiences and outcomes for women in the 1950s, or 1970s, for example. It's probably that the statistics don't exist but I think it's quite hard to make a statement on how unnecessary some of the medical intervention common in 2009 is without looking at interventions and outcomes from previously too. Ideally you need to track a trend over decades.

I think that some labours are more painful than others - a lot of different factors at play I guess.

If I'd had dc2 first, I wouldn't have a clue what the fuss is about. Quick, easy birth and I've had worse headaches in relation to the pain. It wasn't even that sore really.

Dc1 - well, I felt like Jack the Ripper had set about me with a knife, it was fucking horrendous and immensely painful. A totally different experience from the same body.

Beccajo - they send you home in early labour because they know keeping you in increases the chance you labour will go shit-shaped.

It's a shame they can't send you home with a midwife or doula though, plus a tank of entonox!.

Yanbu everyone has different pain levels (thankfully i can tolerate pain) but I wouldn't call anyone a drama queen if they screamed!

Beccajo - they send you home in early labour because they know keeping you in increases the chance you labour will go shit-shaped.

Not because it's cheaper to send you home then?

"It's probably that the statistics don't exist but I think it's quite hard to make a statement on how unnecessary some of the medical intervention common in 2009 is without looking at interventions and outcomes from previously too. Ideally you need to track a trend over decades."

Umm, to measure the impact of different patterns of care on interventions, all you need are two closely matched groups, and to expose them each to a different patterns of care. If one group has double or triple the number of emergency surgeries and no improvement in outcomes it's reasonable to draw the conclusion that a percentage of emergency surgeries in labour may be avoidable.

It's hard to compare populations of women from say the 1970's with today because we are older, fatter, more ethnically diverse and have had a different pattern of antenatal care.

I wouldn't want to be sent home with a midwife or doula though, entonox or not.

If someone is begging for pain relief then they should be admitted and treated for the pain they are suffering, however far along in their labour they are.

Perhaps some people would swap a slightly increased chance of complications for adequate pain relief?

From another recent thread on this topic, foolish, I remember that some posters think it is very wrong to want to swap increased risks of complications for adequate pain relief

(I'm with you, I would have gnawed off a finger after 2 days for some pain relief, but as still not considered in active labour)

I loved giving birth, but I have a high pain threshold.

But every one is diffrent and at the end of the day, regardless of how the baby comes out why is it an issue.