AIBU to have found childbirth unbearably agonising?

[Caff2]

Just that. I had an elective section with ds2 because of it. And yet I have friends and read on here of people who "did it naturally" or "just had a bit of gas and air at the end".

Why was childbirth so awfully painful for me?

"a) the increased staff are properly trained to support women throughout birth, INCLUDING early labour"

If we went back to the DOMINO system of the late 90's (domicilary in and out) where a midwife went to a mother in early labour at home, and cared for her there until she was in active labour (ie strong, regular contractions, 6cm dilated for first time mum), and then take her to hospital (if that was her choice) it might work. But hospitals can't accommodate large numbers of women in early labour at the moment. Given that bringing women to hospital in early labour is linked to very much higher rates of intervention and no improvement in outcome I can't see the government pouring money into this type of provision.

"b) women are not bullied into seeing epidurals as the work of the devil which only selfish, wimpy mothers seek out"

Despite the insensitivity of some midwives, there is no official support from the RCM for not listening to women in labour and ignoring their requests for pain relief. I don't know what else can be done, other than some women suing the NHS for birth trauma linked to being ignored in labour. I always suggest to women that they demand that any request for an epidural be logged in their labour notes and to check that this has been done. Maybe if more women did this it might help?

"Incidentally, perhaps another way to reduce emergency CS's would be to allow easier choice to elective CS to those who have previously had difficult births?"

Actually the focus is on preventing first c/s by improving care and persuading more women to consider birth in out of hospital settings, where outcomes for low risk women tend to be better and satisfaction rates higher.

As for offering c/s to all women who've had a difficult first birth - actually the vast majority of women who've had a forceps/ventouse delivery or a protracted labour with fetal distress go on to have a completely straightforward birth with their second baby. This is especially so if they remain low risk. Women who have had a previous c/s, fourth degree tear, or a shoulder dystocia are already often offered the choice of planned c/s or elcs. Women who've developed PTSD can be offered the choice of planned c/s too - this does happen already.

The difficulty with all of these things is that the system is at breaking point in some areas and that midwives and doctors are fire-fighting. This is leading to very insensitive care sometimes.

"So, apparently there were 813,200 births in the UK in 2013, which means that proportionally, 81,320 women would have said 'no'. Which is not an insubstantial number."

Yes - it is too many.

But it's complicated by the fact that

• pain relief used in labour sometimes doesn't work (in the case of pethidine and entonox)
• many women don't want an epidural because of the side effects
• epidurals don't always work (in 1 in 8 cases women will request further pain relief)

It's not just about women being ignored or disregarded. Pain relief for labour is not the same as pain relief for a broken leg - it doesn't work in the same way.

It's a bugger really.

"Along with 'no meds for Hyperemesis Gravidarum';

Hyperemesis is hideous.

My friend had to terminate her second pregnancy because of it.

If we went back to the DOMINO system of the late 90's (domicilary in and out) where a midwife went to a mother in early labour at home, and cared for her there until she was in active labour (ie strong, regular contractions, 6cm dilated for first time mum), and then take her to hospital (if that was her choice) it might work.

That system sounds ideal, why on earth did they scrap it? Money, I guess? Though actually, I was in hospital with midwives 'present' throughout early labour (I was 7cm when they finally believed and examined me), and they did their level best to get me to spend it completely unattended, first by sending me away to make myself 'a nice cup of tea' in an empty day room, then by sending me off 'for a nice bath'.

Purply why do you say a misplaced sense of heroism? Lovebeinginthesun said just now that the only rule should be no judging and she is dead right. But your use of those words is just as judgy as another woman saying "well I had no pain relief so I don't see why you had to". Both are wrong. Some women will find labour painful and terrifying and should be given fast and effective pain relief as soon as they ask for it, yes. But some women will have easy labours and they aren't lying or being martyrs or being falsely heroical. We do women no favours if we fail to acknowledge that both types of birth are a possibility.

Purbly - I suspect they abandoned the system because of a shortage of midwives.

"Some women will find labour painful and terrifying and should be given fast and effective pain relief as soon as they ask for it, yes. But some women will have easy labours and they aren't lying or being martyrs or being falsely heroical. We do women no favours if we fail to acknowledge that both types of birth are a possibility."

And some women have long, hideously painful and scary experiences of labour and still DON'T WANT PAIN RELIEF. And find a way of coping without it.

We really need to get away from the view that an excruciating labour is always traumatising and always needs to be medicated away. For some women it's not traumatising, and on balance they'd rather experience agony than have an epidural.

I declined an epidural both times because of potential complications! I'd rather it be as straightforward as possible, even if it means more pain.

Gas and air made me puke.

Both times I had pethadine and was high as a kite! This was almost a problem second time cos it happened immediately after the drugs. I heard mw1 explain to mw2 that the poor girl was off her face... Or something to that effect. I struggled to follow her instructions and cord was briefly trapped around dds neck so big panic!

I don't have period pain, just don't. A friend of mine is doubled over in agony, needs handfuls of painkillers and is unable to leave the bed.

Do you think I should give her a lecture about how she should prepare better and be empowered and positive? That it's all down to her mental attitude? Periods a natural thing after all and see, mine don't hurt at all!

No? But it's ok whenever labours are discussed.

But some women will have easy labours and they aren't lying or being martyrs or being falsely heroical. We do women no favours if we fail to acknowledge that both types of birth are a possibility.

I see your point, but what I'm saying is that a lot of women are 'steered' into believing that it's better to endure pain without pain relief than with it. If it's a woman's genuine choice to endure the pain without pain relief then fine, but it should absolutely be her choice at every stage.

I've got to go to work now, so not ignoring your other points Lemis, will hopefully be able to return later

We really need to get away from the view that an excruciating labour is always traumatising and always needs to be medicated away. For some women it's not traumatising, and on balance they'd rather experience agony than have an epidural.

Have you actually ever given birth in an NHS hospital? I have twice and IME there really isn't any issue whatsofuckingever with MWs and doctors forcing drugs on women who don't want them. Quite the opposite in fact. I've never known of one single person who was bullied into taking pain-relief they didn't want, yet I've known plenty who were outright refused drugs, or made to go as long as possible with as little as possible.

IMO, we actually need to get away from the idea that excruciating pain is just part and parcel of labour- unless the individual woman has a weird masochistic particular desire to experience it. We're in the 21st century now, and we have effective drugs for absolutely every other condition and illness coming out of our ears. No other person in agony in other part of the hospital would be fobbed of with a round of toast and a hot bath.

I'm a redhead so supposed to have a lower pain threshold

No, you're supposed to have a higher pain threshold.

Lesmiserable clearly there are efforts to reduce pain relief for women, just on this thread people have given the examples of the Netherlands and Japan as places where you'd struggle to get an epidural. And as people have pointed out the Japanese approach (and possibly the Dutch one as well) is a matter of idealogy regarding what birth experiences should be like, i.e. natural and painful.

As for CS, the discussion are always about alarming rates of CS in general and reducing CS in general. I have yet to say anyone say that EMCS should be reduced and ELCS should be a freely available option. Even in the UK where there is a lot of emphasis on patient choice ELCS is only very recently been made available on the NHS. In other countries, e.g. France, you can't get an ELCS, not even privately.

The reality is that the birth experience is still being micromanaged by outsides, i.e. others than the woman having the experience. I don't care if they want to make it more medicalised or less medicalised, what bothers me is the presumption of control which is not present in other areas of medicine. Dentists are not given targets to reduce the amount of anaelgisic they use for fillings out of an aspiration to have the majority of the population get their fillings done with no pain relief - why do we have such views about childbirth? (again I respect and uphold a pair-relief free birth as a matter of choice, just not as a matter of definition of or aspiration as to what all births should be like)

My DD is a redhead and has an extremely low pain threshold. I often say to her, in jest, that I can't wait til she has a baby.

"outsides" should be "outsiders"

exactly BooBoo. I often opt for no analgesics at the dentist, as I personally find the injection often more painful and uncomfortable than the actual work. But my dentist is always happy to give me the pain relief the second I ask for it, and does not tell me that I'm coping so well without and oh it's too early/late. And nobody is suggesting that I should do it without, just with some preparation and breathing.

I found it agony. I don't think DS1's head was ever low enough to put enough pressure on my cervix to progress and I think he may have been back to back as well. I ended up with an EMCS and was fine after it, and with my subsequent 2 elective caesareans.

After each section I had a surprised/impressed comment from a nurse at how quickly I was up and about. Yet some people really struggle . . . someone said to me the other day "Oh you know what it's like when you have a caesarean, you can't even pick the baby up" and I thought . . . um . . .no . . . I never had a problem picking the baby up. Yet I still took pain relief and I know some people that didn't even need that.

It's just total luck a lot of the time. People boasting that it was a breeze isn't helpful to others who struggled. It's just different for different people.

To ask me now, I'd say out of my 3 births, 2&3 were easy, super quick, just g&a i do it again in a heartbeat.

However, ahem. DP will tell you that during those super quick minutes I was screaming like a banshee to "JUST GET ME SOME PAINKILLERS!"

I think it's easier to forget sometimes.

In general everyday life I have a very high pain threshold, but my labour was horrific (flashback inducing horrific) and I didn't even give birth as I had an emergency c-section. He was back to back, his head is over the 99.6th centile and just wouldn't move down. I have very wide hips too so thought it shouldn't be too bad. I have head people say tattoos are more painful, but having my whole body being tattooed simultaneously would be less painful than labour. I'm hoping if I can have another baby, to have an elective c-section, even though it makes sad that I haven't experienced giving birth.

I hate suggestions about high or low pain thresholds or mind over matter

Something about them always seems to smack underneath about success, failure, or being more 'effective'. Can't quite put my finger on it but they are up there for me with the phrase 'failure to progress'.

I had a 2 day latent stage that was fucking agony. YANBU, OP. Every single woman and every single labour is different and it's impossible to compare them. I hated labour, I will be having an ELCS if I do it again, thank you NICE...

Meerka, off topic but how are you doing? I hope things are going ok for you. You were wonderful to me about six months back on the HG thread - under a different name, I terminated due to HG (now I've sort of processed it I'm happy to talk about it under my usual nickname). I really appreciated your kind words and support at the time. It's another incomparable thing, isn't it, how rubbish your pregnancy is? I sometimes wish other people could experience what we did - it would be interesting to compare, was your labour more painful? Was your pregnancy more painful? (But that's bitterness over the 'friends' who thought I was just being a wimp in my first HG pregnancy...)

I don't know. Mine were horrible experiences. Induction, agonising hours into days of contractions and got no further than 5 cm with either of them before emergency sections. I found the first experience terrifying, left alone for most of the time, told i wasn't in actual labour, wanted to die, thought i would die as they just kept racking up the dose on the drip.
I felt a failure for ages. And still believe I have a pathetically low pain threshold...though maybe i actually don't...
The thing is I know now that they weren't going to come out, that in the olden days I would have died. Plenty of people did. There is no shame in not being able to do it naturally. Having them is what matters. I didn't have the wonderful experience but I have them and they are safe. If I was having another and say stuff it and opt for a section!

I found my third birth horrifically painful. Truly awful. I had gas and air and I was offered something stronger but declined (think I was delirious!) mainly because I felt like it was close to being over at that point. It is the worst pain ever!

Nope - redheads do have a lower pain threshold and a lower pain tolerance on average.

I also am immune to the workings of certain common painkillers.

I have a very low pain tolerance (which I do not think of as a mental weakness but a physical one!). Hence I have no problem with people putting in pain tolerance as a variable.

I think the bigger variable is your body and the baby's position.

I feel that I was tortured for around 22 hours. If this had happened outside of a hospital I would probably have qualified for some sort of counselling...but as my baby was fine, I am apparently fine.