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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think school trips are too expensive?

242 replies

lucyhoward · 24/05/2014 11:19

My son has just come home from school for half term with a letter about a school watersports trip in France next summer. Whilst I am sure it will be great fun I am not sure whether we can justify the £500 price tag. By the time we have sent spending money and paid for any kit they will need we will be lucky to have change from £600 I imagine.

Is this even something schools should be getting involved in? Surely holidays should be a family thing?

OP posts:
MeltedLolly · 26/05/2014 13:57

and schools can remain a place where we strive to give all children the same

Strive to give all children the same.

Sounds great, but is a tad naïve.

Unless you are willing to lower the common denominator a great deal to cater for families like mine who aren’t really that interested in their kids well-being. Or rather, are far more interested in really important things like…. let me think… fags, booze, new iphones, designer clothes, season tickets for the footie, the biggest plasma screen telly in the street, false nails getting filled every fortnight and so on.

EduardoBarcelona · 26/05/2014 13:58

School trios can be paid for with pupil premium funding for those on benefits or Hmm in the army. (I know)

EduardoBarcelona · 26/05/2014 13:58

In fact those on pp shouldn't really pay for any day trips at all. If your school hadn't told you that then ask them

MeltedLolly · 26/05/2014 14:16

Certainly when dd went to a comp I'd say the "poorer" children had more "stuff"

Windymill, My sister’s children, now young adults themselves, never got to go on school trips, and only ever had one family holiday to Blackpool for 1 week, they never had family weekends away or anything remotely like that, their entire childhood was spent in a 10 mile radius of their home. Both my sister and her husband though had lots of “stuff”. I am a good bit better off (financially) than my sister, but my clothing/hair/make up/jewelry/phone budget is a tiny fraction of hers. Then again, no doubt she needs the hair/designer clothes/make up/fortnightly-nails to go out on the piss well turned out.

It amazes me (and we are London so there is the work about) that parents who do very little aren't prepared to do a bit more for the sake of their children

My father had the type of job (building trade) where he could have made a small fortune doing work on the side in the evenings or weekends. But he never ever did. His weekends and evenings were spent getting pissed. They didn't lack money, they just lacked motivation to live a better life, than work/football/pub/rinse/repeat.

These trips have been around for years so there is obviously demand for them. Some children don't learn a work ethic from their parents and school can encourage them to study and show them what they can do in the future

HappyMummy, I absolutely agree with you. Although my family were shit, and a school trip abroad was as likely as a walk on the moon, seeing other people in my class with nice normal families who did scrimp and save to send their kids on these trips was very beneficial to me. It did teach me that to afford nice things in life I would (unlike my family) have to work hard. I would (unlike my family) have to learn not to blow my money on silly things like booze/fags/clothes/gadgets. I am so happy that I did see “higher achieving” families in my youth. If I hadn’t I wouldn’t have had anything to stimulate me to take a different path to my parents.

HappyMummyOfOne · 26/05/2014 14:17

Eduardo, that not the case at all for some schools. Small rural schools may get very little in PP and all have to show it's been spent on improving outcomes. Paying for a TA or educational software etc is a better use re outcomes than a trip.

EduardoBarcelona · 26/05/2014 14:26

thats nonsense, all pp kids attract the same( well army slightly less) and parents should have a say in how it is spent. It cannot be absorbed into general costs.

EduardoBarcelona · 26/05/2014 14:27

in fact Ofsted will ask for Direct correlation between the expenditure and its effect on tommy - if that kid has no contact with the TA ( and recent research shows that TAs has least effect on pupil attainment) then the school might well fail the inspection

HappyMummyOfOne · 26/05/2014 14:30

Parents don't get any say on how pupil premium is spent. Can you imagine if they did Hmm

It must be displayed on the schools website and Ofsted want to see how it's made a difference to the child's outcome. A trip won't show that but an intervention scheme, TA etc can by results.

It is the same amount per child but if a school has few children or few children on FSM it may barely even cover the TA who works with those children etc.

EduardoBarcelona · 26/05/2014 14:34

i think we will have to disagree.

get ready for SM

NearTheWindymill · 26/05/2014 14:58

I have a real issue with schools encouraging people to claim FSM because of the link to funding. It encourages dependency and counteracts the building of a work ethic.

Purplepoodle · 26/05/2014 15:42

This is why iv started putting a small amount away each month even though my eldest is in reception

MeltedLolly · 26/05/2014 16:16

I'm generally completely against schools acting as travel agents though - perhaps because the schools in Scotland tend to be more socially diverse (which I think is a great thing), and so what tends to happen is that a small number of children from the more affluent end swan off on trips which their classmates will never in a month of Sundays be able to afford. The idea that this teaches those classmates to understand from a young that there are haves and have nots in this world is just obscene imo

SirChenjin,

I only just got the chance to go back and read earlier replies on this thread.

I am also Scottish, and also attended a school with plenty of haves and plenty of have nots. I was certainly not the only kid in my class with parents so selfish and reckless poor that they couldn’t afford the school trips, but could afford every Friday and Saturday night at the working mens club. I went to school with kids that barely had a coat on their backs or shoes on their feet, but their dad was a fixture in the local bookies and their mothers went to bingo 3 times per week. We had plenty of heavy drinking, heavy smoking, heavy gambling parents amongst the 32 kids in my class. Why was there always money for alcohol/tobacco/horses/bingo, yet no money for school trips?

Just under a third of my class went on the school trip to France. The “haves” I would assume you would call them. I am sorry, but I find that term almost offensive as it seems to imply good luck more than hard work. My best friend went on the France trip – she too would have been a “have” by your standards. Her mum and dad never drank outside of the home and only the occasional beer or wine in their home. Her dad smoked, but was limited to one pouch of tobacco a week, her mum didn’t smoke. Unlike my parents who both smoked and drank very heavily. Funnily enough, her dad, like mine, was in the building trade, so no real difference in income at all. Just a vastly different way of living and wholly different priorities. Her dad did extra jobs on the side in the weekends and evenings, and her mum worked part time, mine didn’t (wouldn’t have been possible to work with such bad hangovers of a morning).

I am not saying no kids in my school year weren’t from genuine poverty, but as “poor” as a load of us appeared to be, as in, we were poorly clothed, poorly fed, didn’t have many chances or opportunities in life, the majority of us had very heavy drinking parents, most of whom smoked and many of whom gambled on the horses & bingo. There were only 3 kids in my class (of 32) who qualified for free school meals as their parents were on benefits or very minimal earnings, most of the dads (24 ish out of 32) worked in the same place, it wasn’t ship building, but like ship building (The Clyde) to state the exact job would give away the exact location. But it was a VERY well paid job. Although it looked like poverty, these people were far from poor when it came to actual earnings. I have just checked and a not mentioning actual trade shipbuilder at that time earned well above the national average.

It’s quite funny how we both have such differing perceptions of Scotland and the haves and have nots.

As I already said earlier, I did me no harm at all to see the kids from the “decent” families go off on their trip to France, it did me the world of good to learn that I had to break the cycle of buying “stuff’/drinking/smoking/gambling that so many families in my birth place were (and still are to this very day) caught up in. Seeing my school mates go off on that coach to France, as silly as it sounds now, gave me something to aspire to.

GnomeDePlume · 26/05/2014 16:45

Meltedlolly I am sorry that you interpreted my comments as having been aimed at you specifically and about your situation specifically. They werent and they arent.

MeltedLolly · 26/05/2014 17:43

Gnome, I didn't think you were talking to me personally or referring to my situation, I just wanted to point out, that contrary to what you said, sometimes there is no bigger picture to see. Sometimes it as simple as "if those parents didn’t smoke and drink so much, they could easily afford to send 10 kids on a week’s holiday to France with the school”. Granted, we don’t always know the back story and the exact ins and outs of people’s lives and finances, but sometimes some examples of poor/selfish parenting are so blatant, that they’re frankly impossible to miss.

GnomeDePlume · 26/05/2014 18:06

I agree that there will be individual examples of selfish behaviour by parents. However I would say that my experience of DCs' primary school (around 30% FSM entitlement) was that even those who werent entitled to FSM the majority fell into the category of 'struggling to stay afloat'. Yet the HT continued to push a residential trip in two years (year 3 & year 6).

Bellezeboobian · 26/05/2014 18:54

It's funny how people want equal opportunities for kids at school in regards to things like gender, disability etc but when it comes to their darlings going on school holidays that all goes out of the window. Forget equal opportunities poor kids, you may as well learn from a young age that money overrides everything. Forget school being there to provide you all with the same.

I went to South Africa and France when I was at school. This was in term time, the kids left behind had to attend lessons as usual. There were no payment plans. Other kids would get asked 'why aren't you going' and they'd have to say they didnt want to but everyone knew it was because they couldn't afford it.

MeltedLolly · 26/05/2014 19:10

It's funny how people want equal opportunities for kids at school in regards to things like gender, disability etc but when it comes to their darlings going on school holidays that all goes out of the window. Forget equal opportunities poor kids, you may as well learn from a young age that money overrides everything. Forget school being there to provide you all with the same.

What a silly statement. Equal opportunities for things like gender and disability are for everyone, not just children. The absence of discrimination based on gender and disability are basic human rights and are in no way comparable to a luxury like a school trip or an adult holiday. You do understand the difference between a “basic human right” and a “well, nice if you can afford it”?

ExitPursuedByABear · 26/05/2014 19:13

I despair.

Should no one have anything because someone else can't have it?

Bellezeboobian · 26/05/2014 19:23

And you're all missing the point that SCHOOL is supposed to be the one place kids should be able to go to and be treated equally regardless of their parent's financial status.

Should no one have anything because someone else can't have it?

Schools should't offer holiday trips full stop. They'd be better off putting their energy into something everyone can take part in that actually provides more educational prospects than what most of these trips do.

ILoveCoreyHaim · 26/05/2014 19:23

Our end of primary trip was £200 for 4 nights an hrs drive away. The Senior school trip to Greece for 4 nights was £500. Our Academy have a fund available you can apply to for help with the trips if needed. DD didn't go, hardly any went. If you can't afford it don't send them. If you have parents who can afford it then great have fun. Don't see why they shouldn't go because I can't afford it. The primary end of year trip happens every year and you could save up for a year paying instalments to the school

MeltedLolly · 26/05/2014 19:24

I despair

Should no one have anything because someone else can't have it?

it certainly sounds like it, lol. Maybe we should send all kids to school in sack cloth and ashes just to make sure no kids (or their parents) feel inferior, or that some lucky kid with shoes with soles in them gets accused of being a "have" and that the "have nots" with no shoes don't have a snowball's chance in hell of aspiring to a pair of soled shoes. Wink

MeltedLolly · 26/05/2014 19:27

Schools should't offer holiday trips full stop. They'd be better off putting their energy into something everyone can take part in that actually provides more educational prospects than what most of these trips do.

You could be right, maybe schools should spend more time teaching pupils not to compare basic human rights with life's little luxuries when trying to make a point on an internet chat forum. Smile

HappyMummyOfOne · 26/05/2014 19:32

It's like it comes out of there blue for many. I knew from early on in reception which years did residential trips at our primary from the newsletter. It didn't suddenly appear out of the blue, they do it every year.

Likewise, from my own time at high school I know there will be many offers for trips. They are just that, offers. You can take or leave them. No different to most purchases.

Why should those with hard working parents, those that save etc have to miss out because a few don't want them. Up to the parent what they prioritise their spending on.

Life isn't equal and wanting the nice things in life encourages the children to study hard for a good job. What would they learn if everything got handed to them on a plate or nice extras were removed for all?

GnomeDePlume · 26/05/2014 19:57

^I despair

Should no one have anything because someone else can't have it?^

The problem is that it is the same schools which insist on a school uniform to make sure that everyone looks the same whatever their wealth which then offer trips which are only available to those who can afford them. It is hypocritical IMO.

MeltedLolly · 26/05/2014 20:19

The problem is that it is the same schools which insist on a school uniform to make sure that everyone looks the same whatever their wealth which then offer trips which are only available to those who can afford them. It is hypocritical IMO

School uniforms aren’t there solely “to make sure that everyone looks the same whatever their wealth”. They are the calling card of a school, a way of ensuring extremes in clothing/fashion don’t get in. A uniformed look, be it in school or at work, has many functions, not just egality. A uniform at work is partly so people look the same, partly because they save own clothes, partly because too much time would be spent explaining and policing what’s suitable and what isn’t suitable skirt length-wise, cleavage wise, funny obnoxious t-shirt wise, and partly because they look nice, and well, uniformed. And it’s similar for schools, uniforms are not there just “to make sure that everyone looks the same whatever their wealth”.

Do you really think Tesco/Boots/British Airways etc have uniforms just so their staff can’t work out who earns how much, or are there more reasons behind uniforms? And do you really think it’s that different for schools?

Uniforms in schools fill many purposes, not just the one you highlight.

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