To think school trips are too expensive?

[lucyhoward]

My son has just come home from school for half term with a letter about a school watersports trip in France next summer. Whilst I am sure it will be great fun I am not sure whether we can justify the £500 price tag. By the time we have sent spending money and paid for any kit they will need we will be lucky to have change from £600 I imagine.

Is this even something schools should be getting involved in? Surely holidays should be a family thing?

No, I don't think you are wrong chilephilly.

I think school trips are a wonderful way for children to develop, learn to be independent from their parents/families and learn to get along with a whole range of people they don't usually hang out with.

Whilst I think the argument about the poor getting nothing and having their noses rubbed in it has some merit I just don't see why some children who wouldn't otherwise have these opportunities should be denied them. From a more personal perspective MIL was very poor as a child and the answer was always no to the point where she felt ashamed (principally because her parents had more children than they could afford and could have stopped had they been sensible) but it didn't stop her becoming head girl, and it didn't stop her going to college and becoming a deputy headmistress. It also meant that each of her children went on every single trip their schools offered so her experiences clearly didn't make her think that what the other dc in her class in the 1950s got was wrong. She wanted it and she made sure her children got it.

What worries me about some of the arguments on this thread is that they squash aspiration.

I recall that my dc's primary school did pay for trips for children who couldn't afford it or at least helped; the same went for musical tuition. I accept it was very leafy and there were few dc on fsm but still I think it was right to lift to the highest common denominator rather than the lowest. They had a residential similar to the French one just above albeit in England which cost about £300 I think and I'm pretty sure everyone paid an extra few quid to cover the costs; I'm also pretty sure that the head paid for the occasional child re other stuff too.

I accept it was very leafy and there were few dc on fsm

You've just answered your own question.

Oh, and you're not necessarily wrong chile - unless that trip is easily affordable to everyone. However, quite why a visit to a snail farm and an afternoon speaking french is so important to their language development I'm not sure - it's a bit of a jolly, isn't it, if you're being completely honest.

I don't like it because it really fucks me off that children who's parents haven't got the money don't have the same opportunities. Then have it rubbed in their face with assemblies, photos pinned everywhere and all that

I never got further than this post on page 2, as this post fucks me off I had to respond. Forgive me if this has been said already.

I never got to go on school trips, my parents could afford it but had selfish priorities couldn't afford it. They could afford to go out and get totally and utterly pissed 3 nights a week, every week of the year, every year I went to school, and they could afford to smoke 3 packets of cigarettes between them each day. Obviously my parents personal drinking and smoking habits cost more like £600 a fortnight, so should kids with responsible parents just suffer, because arsehole, alcoholic, selfish parents like mine "couldn't afford school trips".

But that is an extreme example - that isn't the case in most households that can't afford trips to Spain or Japan (or even closer to home).

I think if it's an activity trip then I would be happy to send my kids if I could afford it because we tend to go on relaxing holidays.
My problem is my sons school are wanting to take the rugby team on a tour of South Africa. He is on the team and so was dying to go. But at a massive £3000 I just had to say no. I couldn't stretch to that at all!

I think it is an issue when they are very sporty and musical and are "selected" for these trips. Our DS went to an independent school because he was sporty and we felt he needed more sport than a state school could or would be able to offer - in those circumstances we felt it was something to be factored into the overall cost. Nevertheless the boys used to have to fund raise for these trips to bring the cost down a bit. I think we did SA for 2,300.

Meltedlolly can I ask a question? I know of a family where the parents aren't dissimilar but who claim they can't afford to pay for extras. I have been tempted on occasion to say "well drink and smoke less then, and put your children first". Would that have helped with your parents, might it have made them sit up and think. I do feel that society has handcuffed itself a bit in the last few generations and nobody speaks sense any more for fear of offence and being politically correct.

I think that if you send your children to independent schools for whatever reason you expect that there will be expensive trips. For those of us who prefer state education we expect inclusiveness, and that includes trips imo.

But that is an extreme example - that isn't the case in most households that can't afford trips to Spain or Japan (or even closer to home)

assuming you're referring to my (heavy drinking and heavy smoking) parents as the extreme example .... if they are an extreme example (which in its self is arguable), then so is a school trip to Spain or Japan. My parents could easily have afforded (back then) to send me on the school trip for a week to France, it would roughly have meant them stopping drinking for one month, they prioritized drinking.

Yes I know there are plenty of parents who don't smoke and drink and still can't afford school trips, but no one can deny there are just as many parents who are simple poor budgeters, or (like my parents) waste money on alcohol and cigarettes.

For those who can afford these school trips, should they feel guilty because some kids had parents like mine? That is, my parents didn't do well at school, they didn't get good jobs, in their adult life they did nothing to "better" themselves or their situation, they drank and smoked in excess... I never got a school trip further than the local zoo, but I would never make those kids whose parents did scrimp and save to let their kids go on school trips, feel guilty about it. It's life. Not everyone can afford everything.

Unfortunately SirChenjin we opted out of state for dd because there was a bit too much bloody inclusiveness - everyone was included and exposed to the foul language, the violence, the theft, etc.. and the girls who behaved were expected to suck it up because they had better home lives and didn't suffer any deprivation.

It works both ways you know and over my dead body would I allow my dd's standards to be dragged down to that for the sake of politically correct inclusiveness. AFAIC you stick inclusiveness where the sun doesn't shine if it means nobody can say something is wrong and do something about it.

Great post Windymill.

I hear all the time on the playground people moaning that the school have dared asked £12 for a trip yet two minutes later there latest smart phone comes out, they smoke and are discussing their latest clothes purchase. Some parents think they are higher priority than their children and their wants come first.

As I've said, I never had any of the trips but don't want them stopped just because I didn't. Children do know they can't have everything and if life is handed to you on a plate there is nothing to work for. Wanting my child to have these experiences and other things gave me a great work ethic.

Politically correct?

I'm sorry you had such a poor experience of inclusiveness - fortunately for many of us our experiences are much more positive.

SirChenjin. My son is at a state school. It just happens to pride itself in its sporting past pupils and hence really pushes prospective stars.

And yet it still thought that asking parents for £3K to send its rugby team to SA was appropriate? Fortunately our rugby team recognises that's outwith the financial ability of the majority of its players parents.

Meltedlolly can I ask a question? I know of a family where the parents aren't dissimilar but who claim they can't afford to pay for extras. I have been tempted on occasion to say "well drink and smoke less then, and put your children first". Would that have helped with your parents, might it have made them sit up and think. I do feel that society has handcuffed itself a bit in the last few generations and nobody speaks sense any more for fear of offence and being politically correct

No, that kind of straight talking wouldn't have helped with my parents, or for that matter with my siblings who have repeated the same pattern with their kids (siblings drink heavily and kids have suffered/did without because of that heavy drinking and smoking). My parents refuse to see things as they really were. They believe they were genuinely poor. They don't believe they could have (and should have) done better by us children, they are delusional and think that they gave us everything they possibly could have. But quite frankly, 40 years of heavy drinking has fucked their heads up beyond the point that they can't actually think rationally, and totally not logically, and as for critical thinking - forget it. They also have a sense of entitlement a mile wide... they are (were) entitled to go out and get pissed 3 nights a week as .... well, they're entitled to.

The whole concept of working to achieve something, or working to improve your lot in life is lost on them. They didn't work hard at school, they did nothing in their adult lives to better themselves, whether that be extra schooling, or learning a new skill or trade, or taking a night class, or hell - even just working a few hours overtime. That way of thinking is alien to them. They expect things to be handed to them, they feel entitled to just "get" things. And any money they did have extra after bills were paid, it just stands to reason that was pent solely on their drinking and smoking.

With my parents, their children simply didn't come first. Hell they didn't even come second or third, lol. But I do absolutely agree with you, I often feel, like you, just telling these moaners who can't afford school trips, but can afford 3 meter wide plasma tv's, tablets, new iphones every 6 months, fags, booze, season tickets to football clubs, nails done every 2 weeks to shut the fuck up and put their children first.

I hear all the time on the playground people moaning that the school have dared asked £12 for a trip yet two minutes later there latest smart phone comes out, they smoke and are discussing their latest clothes purchase. Some parents think they are higher priority than their children and their wants come first.As I've said, I never had any of the trips but don't want them stopped just because I didn't. Children do know they can't have everything and if life is handed to you on a plate there is nothing to work for. Wanting my child to have these experiences and other things gave me a great work ethic

^^ My experience down to a tee!!

Oh dear god....

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. All these parents who can't afford school trips just need to downgrade their plasma tellies and and cut out the season tickets. That's exactly what the problem is - it's simply parents not putting their children first.

Head/brick wall/despair.

I don't think that's what anyone is saying sirchenjin but I do think there is a significant minority who do behave like that and it is notable that the most deprived girls at the comp we sent dd to for a couple of years were the ones with the i-phones, and the flashy bags, etc.

I'm sorry for your childhood Melted. I wonder what could have made it better?

Sigh.

I still don't see why schools offer holidays, because that's what they are. Holidays, not 'school trips'.

First Latin and Greek were redundant, MFL increasingly becoming so, triple science not offered to all, competitive sports eroded. Thin end of the wedge. Shall we stop teaching good grammar because that's not what people use day to day. Shall we stop all pleasure and aspiration because a small part of the population is unintelligent and has never wandered beyond a five mile radius. Just in case it might want them to achieve and make a better life?

So shall we keep the plebs down then by never offering them an opportunity and everyone can just learn the basics, never be empowered to leave their compounds, wear the same trouser suits and do entirely as those above dictate. You know, just in case they find out there's a better life out there.

Yep, let's not let anyone do anything just in case it makes someone else feel a bit left out.

I don't believe it's a 'significant' minority. I know that there are a small minority of parents who behave this way, but most parents who struggle to pay for school trips or who can't afford them at all really don't spend their money on "3 meter wide plasma tv's, tablets, new iphones every 6 months, fags, booze, season tickets to football clubs, nails done every 2 weeks (I acknowledge this was scored through, but nonetheless represents that posters thoughts) or need to shut the fuck up and put their children first". That quote could have come straight out of the Daily Mail.

Yep, let's not let anyone do anything just in case it makes someone else feel a bit left out

No, how about schools stop offering trips which are beyond the reach of most of its pupils?

First Latin and Greek were redundant, MFL increasingly becoming so, triple science not offered to all, competitive sports eroded. Thin end of the wedge

None of those are limited to those who's parents have money though are they.