To think school trips are too expensive?

[lucyhoward]

My son has just come home from school for half term with a letter about a school watersports trip in France next summer. Whilst I am sure it will be great fun I am not sure whether we can justify the £500 price tag. By the time we have sent spending money and paid for any kit they will need we will be lucky to have change from £600 I imagine.

Is this even something schools should be getting involved in? Surely holidays should be a family thing?

Oh dear god....

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. All these parents who can't afford school trips just need to downgrade their plasma tellies and and cut out the season tickets. That's exactly what the problem is - it's simply parents not putting their children first

Head/brick wall/despair

I didn't say that ALL parents who can't afford school trips fall into the selfish/reckless category like my own family. You are however kidding yourself if you don't admit that the reckless/selfish form a sizable chunk of the population.

Yes, there are genuine cases of poverty, plenty of them, but there are plenty of people like my parents (and now my siblings) who would never be able to fund a school ski trip to France, but can buy new iphones yearly, can drink (in pubs, to excess, 5 hours per evening, for at least 2 nights of every week) can smoke, can pay season tickets to premier league clubs.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you accept every case of self proclaimed poverty as genuine. Just as I would be living in cloud cuckoo land if I didn't accept that some people are genuinely living in poverty. I came from poverty. I pulled myself out of it, worked myself and studied myself out of it. My siblings carry on the poor example set my parents, their children will NEVER have priority over self-soothing things like fags, booze or the latest "feel good" gadgets.

No, not a 'sizeable chunk of the population' - as I said earlier, a small minority.

It isn't just not being able to afford the trips though, some people like us don't see the point in them.
Mine never went on residentials as they are over rated and dc can have fun in other ways, and yes I smoke.
I have a few grand that would pay for such a trip though and would never agree, unless it was beneficial for dc and couldn't be gained somewhere else etc. It's not a case that parents like us aren't putting our children first, its prioritising.

I'm sorry for your childhood Melted. I wonder what could have made it better?

Windymill, hitting 18 and getting the F out of that house worked wonders, lol. I am not a moaner, my childhood was crap, but I know my destiny is in my own hands, and my life is good now. I just can't stand these types of posts that refuse to acknowledge that their are very many totally crap parents out there.

I'd say beyond the reach of a minority of their pupils though SirChejin. Certainly when dd went to a comp I'd say the "poorer" children had more "stuff". There were also a few parents who complained about being unable to afford these things who could, God forbid, have gone to work or worked five days instead of three. I'm pretty sure that we were poorer and if we didn't have the money to send our DC on a trip that DH or I would be more than willing to take on extra work to make it happen. I really would take in laundry at the weekends or shelf stack in the supermarket, do a bit of waitressing, etc., and I already work 45 hours a week. It amazes me (and we are London so there is the work about) that parents who do very little aren't prepared to do a bit more for the sake of their chldren.

It's not just about gadgets or shopping habits though. People choose to have one parent stay home, work few hours or not even work at all. True poverty in this country doesn't exist as the state provides shelter and money for food and heat. The last indicator of poverty I saw on a website included not having days out and internet etc!

These trips have been around for years so there is obviously demand for them. Some children don't learn a work ethic from their parents and school can encourage them to study and show them what they can do in the future.

No, not a 'sizeable chunk of the population' - as I said earlier, a small minority

depends where you're looking at.

Where I grew up, and where my family still live, I stand firmly by the words "sizeable chunk of the population".

Where I now live, yes, it's a small minority. I now live in a far more affluent area.

And just for the record, no I didn't grow up in some problematic deprived inner city area either. Just a very working class area where it was the norm for parents to drink in excess, and where education and educational opportunities were silly words used by rich tory voters.

I could afford to send my dd sking we chose not to loads of things factored into her not going I thought it was to expensive she isnt that sporty she would be on a bus for 2 days and 3 in the resort I dont think school holidays are the fantastic opportunity that some people make out and I think its fine if they dont go on them

It depends whether you are able to work, whether there are jobs available, whether you have childcare for your other children, whether you feel the trip to Boston ski-ing or whatever is actually worth it, etc etc etc.

Personally, I believe that unless the trip is actually linked directly to learning outcomes and isn't just a jolly for a small number of children then it has no place in term time (which is when they take place up here).

My dd has a fabulous time on trips though and I think has got a huge amount from them that she wouldn't have got from family holidays - notwithstanding the fact that we don't camp (sorry not meant to offend).

She has been to an activity centre in the UK (primary)
France with school twice, sharing rooms, getting sunburnt (not badly because she forgot her suncream - learnt a life lesson), eating food, doing her own packing - generally mucking in and sharing.
Germany with school (music tour)
Lots of Guide camps (fabulous - sleeping outside to watch the stars)
Ancient Civ trip to Pompeii (that was a bit extravagant)

DS's have been a bit more spectacular because he has done sports tours.

Having said all that we have always limited the trips to one a year for a bit of discipline and we say no about lots of things. We also have holidays but I would say our DC have learnt things on trips that they wouldn't have learnt with us and I am glad they have.

I didn't have trips as a child - there weren't many and I didn't fancy them. I'm glad our DC have had them. They have been great.

FWIW I would be more than happy to help subsidise children like Melted Lolly if it were possible.

Sirchenjin I agree with you there imo is a huge differencevin say a history trip where tbey are having a nice time but actually has something to do witn that subject than going on some holiday

Is it ok for schools with largely wealthy intakes to offer trips?

Where I come from, we only had one trip overseas at the end of our studies. The yearly trips were in our home country (seaside/countryside or mountain) and we still had lessons linked to the location during the trip. Imo, trips abroad every year are a huge indulgence. We can afford them but still find them OTT. Schools need to come up with options that work for everyone over the course of studies, some abroad, some nearer home. Surely the UK has enough points of interest for school trips. The students would get as much benefit as they are away from home, with their buddies, rediscovering their own country.

I have to say I don't think my DC have ever been offered a trip (except the ski trips) that doesn't have any educational or cultural content. I am aware of a school that offer trips to a theme park but I would certainly say no to that whether I could afford it or not.

If a trip has an educational content and is offered in school time then it should be made available to all in state schools. Inclusiveness means (or should mean) that all children should benefit from the same wonderful opportunities.

But not being able to afford luxuries like school trips isnt a preserve of the feckless. Many people live on a knife edge. They are already working to keep their children decently fed, clothed and housed.

It only takes one thing to tip them over the edge into financial problems: the car/washing machine/fridge breaks down. Of course the law of sod dictates that these will all happen in the same month as your boss says no more overtime and your child then comes home with a letter inviting them on the annual residential trip.

I was a governor at DCs' primary school and I remember the HT was genuinely shocked when all the non-staff governors said that they struggled to pay for school trips. He lived in his happy little bubble where the only families struggling were all entitled to FSM. He wasnt aware how many parents were struggling with reduced hours, no overtime and no pay rises since Noah was a lad.

Oh I am now condraticting myself I feel like a twat dds went to alton towers loads the school run incentive points for behaviour uniform etc not exactly educational screaming on oblivian is it

My parents also had different priorities, Melted. They chose to "tithe" 10% of their income to the church, and to have six DC, and for my mother not to work. (It now transpires she has Aspergers, so I'm guessing that she actually would have had difficulty WOTH, which is why she didn't.)

DS has a friend whose father is from a different country, and refuses to let him go on school trips, as he (the father) would worry too much.

Parents have loads of different ways of dressing up, "won't" as "can't".

Sorry, rogue comma in the last sentence.

Parents have loads of different ways of dressing up, "won't" as "can't"

Sanity Clause, (love the name by the way!)

You are so right. My husband's childhood was the polar opposite from mine, his was very privileged, parents were very child-oriented, he had everything (material wise, and affection wise) he could dream of, but he too was never allowed to go on school trips. His parents could have afforded it without blinking an eyelid, but his mother was uber-protective and did everything within her power to discourage any form of independence. The only way he would have been allowed on a school trip of more than a day's duration, is if mummy could have tagged along to supervise it (him). He also wasn't allowed to do sleepovers at friends' houses, or do anything that it took him away from mother's direct over involvement.

But not being able to afford luxuries like school trips isnt a preserve of the feckles

Gnome, I never said it was (nor have I seen anyone else say that). All I have said is.... a sizeable chunk of the population who say they can't afford school trips, could afford it easily if they weren't so selfish and reckless, or if they prioritized their children more. Not everyone who says they can't afford a school trip is genuinely living in poverty or genuinely struggling to make ends meet, a fair percentage of them just prefer new iphones/fags/booze/premier league football season tickets.

It is all too easy to look at someone else's choices and say that they have chosen to to not be able to afford school trips.

The problem is that from the outside you dont know what lies behind those choices. Someone driving around in a newish car may be trapped in a lease they cant get out of or have to drive a newish car for work (I do or lose my car allowance). The mortgage/hp/loan taken out in happier times.

It is easy to smug about one's own choices if they have worked out for the best. Dont forget though that a lot of the time this is only luck not good judgement.

MeltedLolly I know there will be parents who have different priorities. However, I do believe that the people who plan trips are willfully oblivious to how anxious these expenditures make many parents. They see the trip in isolation. It is only £8/10/20/200.

What they forget is that parents may well have more than one child in the school. They forget that the parents may have children in other schools. They forget that there was another trip only a month ago. They forget that the cost of a residential trip isnt just the price of the trip but also the extra clothes which are needed, the spending money.

This all had to be explained to the HT of my DCs' primary school. In his happy little bubble he had ignored all of this. It was only when we governors spoke up that the policy on trips changed.

I haven't read all the replies, surely it would make sense if these group trips could be offered at a good price from other companies similar to PGL and schools can remain a place where we strive to give all children the same. If parents, feel try can afford whether through sacrifice and savings or not, want to send their children on these trips, they can, in a similar way to how school trips run.

I completely missed out on residential trips at school due to moving schools a lot and 'missing' all the trips. I once started a new school about 3 weeks in everyone except me went to PGL for the week and that's all everyone spoke about for ages after! My mum got a last minute deal in the holidays and sent me away to PGL for the week and it was brilliant, I also met lots of new people and think I enjoyed it more than if I had have been around my school peers.

Just think it's a silly thing to argue over as both points are as valid as each other, I've sometimes only just been able to manage the £10 trips at times and I hope I can afford the residential trips by the time I have to consider them. But I'd hate to be in a position where even with sacrifice and savings these trips are unaffordable and I have to tell an excited child holding a letter about an amazing trip most of their friends are likely to be going on that we can't afford it. That's a lot more in their face than it has to be

It is all too easy to look at someone else's choices and say that they have chosen to to not be able to afford school trips

Gnome, In the instances I have put forth here (own siblings and parents), I can say that. They could afford school trips quite easy if it was even slightly important to them.

The problem is that from the outside you dont know what lies behind those choices. Someone driving around in a newish car may be trapped in a lease they cant get out of or have to drive a newish car for work (I do or lose my car allowance). The mortgage/hp/loan taken out in happier times

I am talking specifically about my own mother and father and my own siblings and those specific set of circumstances and finances. I am not on the outside looking in, guessing or wildly speculating. I see what they spend on alcohol and cigarettes alone, and I don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce that "drop the fags and booze and you could easily pay that skiing trip to France".

It is easy to smug about one's own choices if they have worked out for the best. Dont forget though that a lot of the time this is only luck not good judgement

I am not being smug, I am being brutally honest. Just as I am sure you are not just being holier than thou with your remarks to me about smugness/luck/good judgment, I am sure you are just assuring that I am aware that genuine poverty exists. I am, but thanks for the reminder.

I will repeat. Slowly this time. I have never said that every parent who says they can't pay for a school trip falls into this reckless/selfish category, in fact I have went out of my way umpteen times to stress that point, that some people genuinely can't afford it, I just refuse to live in cloud cuckoo land and believe that every case or self-declared poverty is genuine. A sizable chunk of those who say they can't afford, could, if they weren't so reckless/selfish/disinterested in their children.