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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To just ignore the school and proceed with the prearranged times?

110 replies

extremepie · 23/05/2014 14:45

Posted on here a few times before about Ds' school but here's a quick recap:

Ds2 has ASD and is currently on a part time timetable due to him and the school not coping with a full day.

The agreement, as has been discussed many times at various TAF/TAC meetings was that his school day should be extended by 5 minutes a week so that he should be attending full time by the time the summer holidays start.

There have been some lateness issues on my part, not quite getting there on time for pick ups and the school agreed that as long as I was on time, his school day would keep extending.

Since at least Easter I have been making a real hard effort to be on time every day but so far his school day has still not extended past 2pm!

I'm getting really irritated with this now as after all my efforts to improve my timekeeping it has not made any difference and I'm even more annoyed that Ds continues to miss out on a full day of school because they refuse to keep to the agreement!

I also suspect that part of the real reason they won't extend it is because they would rather allocate his 1:1 worker elsewhere in the afternoons and him leaving school early makes this easier for them :(

Wibu to just pick him up at 2:15 when they go back after half term, (as that is the time he should have been up to if they had stuck to the agreement,) instead of 2pm? And then to just increase the time by 5 minutes a week regardless of what they say?

OP posts:
insanityscatching · 23/05/2014 17:39

They aren't coping because he isn't in school a full day, he's losing the equivalent of a day's schooling per week. It is shocking, you need to be taking advice from IPSEA or SOSSEN. If the maintained school is full then look at independent special schools but don't put up with this second rate set up a minute longer.

Owllady · 23/05/2014 17:40

His current school can't be coping though if you have to keep keeping him off
You need to see the statement too

Have you looked at carers UK to see if you have a local organisation as some of them do parent carer advocacy or there is also parent partnership

Owllady · 23/05/2014 17:43

And they wonder why people who have children with disabilities struggle yo work Hmm

soverylucky · 23/05/2014 17:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CharlesRyder · 23/05/2014 17:45

How can you not have a copy of his statement and know how many hours he's funded for?

Maybe he only gets 25hrs so no TA is 'his' after 2pm?

You really need a copy of the statement so you can work with the school on ensuring his provision is right and they are working towards his objectives.

Owllady · 23/05/2014 17:48

I am pleased some of you don't have exposure to autism and significant disability if you think life is so straightforward for the op and its all about time keeping

saintlyjimjams · 23/05/2014 17:49

Yes we had that as well. Or the TA was ill so I'd be phoned up at 8am & told not to bring him.

Unless you're sold on mainstream I'd go & look at the special school. No talk of 'coping' - he's thriving.

Original poster
extremepie · 23/05/2014 17:49

It wasn't because I wanted more time to myself though sovery, it was due to the logistics of crappy rural Cornish public transport and not having enough time in the day to do all the stuff I needed to do!

But a lot of those issues were resolved when I moved a lot closer to the school so makes life a lot easier for all of us!

Owllady at the moment work is a distant fantasy dream....

Can you imagine my interview! 'Yes I would love a job here but can only work between 10 and 12:30 during term time!' Employers are not clamouring to hire me unfortunately :(

OP posts:
Original poster
extremepie · 23/05/2014 17:54

Charles, I have asked them for a copy, as yet they have not provided me one, I have asked to see the copy they have, they said yes but it still hasn't happened! I suspect there is a reason why they are reluctant!

OP posts:
tethersend · 23/05/2014 17:55

"He has missed whole day of school in the the past before because 'they're (the ta's) on a course today so there isn't anyone in school to look after him so you'll have to keep him at home!'"

How did they record that in the register? That's an illegal exclusion.

You really need to talk to the SEN caseworker. And IPSEA.

Canthisonebeused · 23/05/2014 17:59

But she isn't late sovery she is an hour early (if school finishes at 3pm)

Owllady · 23/05/2014 18:00

The people who have the statement are admissions and something Confused under your county council

insanityscatching · 23/05/2014 18:02

Did you get all the paperwork sent to home when he was first statemented? You should have your own copies but you could email the LA and they will email you by return just give ds's name dob and school he currently attends.

Original poster
extremepie · 23/05/2014 18:04

I was supposed to insanity but never got it :( I'll try going direct to the LA and see where I get instead of going through the school!

OP posts:
insanityscatching · 23/05/2014 18:06

The LA should have sent them to you. Did you get asked your views? Did you take advice as to whether it was a "good" statement?

CharlesRyder · 23/05/2014 18:07

Yes, it isn't the school's job to provide you with the statement. You need to take ownership of that- it's your tool to get your DS what he needs. You must have read the proposed statement and agreed it before it could be finalised?

Agree, just email your LA and they will issue you your statement immediately.

saintlyjimjams · 23/05/2014 18:19

Ah you're in Cornwall - can you get the challenging behaviour team involved? (think that's what they're called, they may not be, I can find out more if you want including how to get them involved). They work with children in mainstream and are very good (or at least I know one of the people in the team very well and she is excellent so I presume colleagues are the same).

2kidsintow · 23/05/2014 18:21

Go back with him on the first day back and ask to speak to the SenCo or headteacher. Reiterate that you would like a copy of the statement (as you should have had originally to also sign I would have thought) and say that you would like to have it before you leave - or at the latest by the time you pick your son up later. Make it clear that you are 'happy' to stick around until they can provide you with it.

If they then give it to you, stick to it by the letter. Write a letter of intention that you will stick by the lengthening of your son's day by 5 minutes each week. You could start with the 5 minutes a week from the first week back even if it hasn't already been done, but stick to that rigidly.

Explain that your son is entitled to a full time education as a matter of law and that you will be increasing his time as specified on the statement.

Then turn up 5 mins later each week. If any shock is expressed on the behalf of the school then just say that you are here at the agreed time according to the statement.

ChoosandChipsandSealingWax · 23/05/2014 18:41

I doubt the timings will be on the statement - it will just list his needs and banding etc. and maybe how many hours of one on one (I had to request that bit to be added, in my area they are now trying not to, because the system is changing).

TBH, assuming that you went through the statementing process last year ie before they moved to the new system,
I'm shocked you weren't involved in putting it together - you should have been consulted, and your views included, plus any other professionals who work with your child eg OT, speech therapist. And then once everyone had contributed, they should have made a final version which you are meant to have signed.

jellymcsmelly · 23/05/2014 18:57

There are a few things going on here.

(1) Being on time is important even if it is earlier than the end of the school day. A child with ASD needs to feel secure that if he is told home time is during PE, or ICT, or whatever, that it really is. That helps the staff and it helps your son. Remember they need to have him ready for when they expect you, so if they've brought your son away from something fun elsewhere to get ready and then he's not collected on time, it is hard for them as he may be confused and upset (and they will need to find filler activities than can be dropped quickly when you do come). I do know and understand 100% what a pain this is and I do sympathise. Neither of my children initially coped with a full school day so I have had years of truncated days and twiddling thumbs outside school waiting. If I worked out how many hours I have wasted in being early, it would make me weep. But I also work on the other side now, and if you want your child to cope well and enjoy school, then please try not to add extra stressors for him or the staff.

(2) Your child is entitled to a full day's education. This must be the goal. I would document your plan and copy it to everyone and then just do it:
week of 2/6 - collect 2:05 pm
week of 9/6 - collect 2:10 pm
week of 16/6 - collect at 2:15 pm
week of 23/6 - collect at 2:20 pm
etc

(3) They must NOT expect you to keep him home when a staff member is on a course or unwell. That is absolutely outrageous and if it happens again you must complain to the SENCO, Head or Governors (check school policy and do it in what ever order it states), then any external bodies.

(4) Statement - ask the LA for a copy.

Good luck, OP.

Sahkoora · 23/05/2014 19:13

This sounds all too familiar. My DS who has ASD was on a reduced timetable throughout reception with promises of increasing the time by tiny increments every time he met a set of goals.

Of course, they were managing him poorly and he never met these goals. He did less than 6hrs a week for the majority of the school year. At the beginning of yr1, after they had ticked all the boxes to show they had been "supporting" him, they provoked him into a huge meltdown and he hit his 1:1 and we were threatened with permanent exclusion.

Come over to the Special Needs: Children board. People on there are very well informed about this sort of thing, it happens far too often to kids with SEN, it's basically a way of stealthily getting rid. Their advice was invaluable when we were dealing with all this shit.

Firstly, there is NO WAY you shouldn't have a copy of the statement. It should have been sent to you for approval when it was in the proposed stages, and you should also have received a copy of the final statement. Phone the LA and get one.

Our DS has been off school for the whole of year 1 now, waiting for a placement. Luckily, he got a place at an amazing special school for September, where I know he will flourish.

Good luck!

Icimoi · 23/05/2014 20:18

Sorry, OP, but you really are letting them take the p*ss.

When they tell you to keep him at home because the TA is not in, just tell them no, you will be bringing him to school as usual because he is entitled to full time education.

As others have suggested, write to them saying that you are implementing the agreement with immediate effect to increase his hours, therefore you will be coming to collect at 2.05 the week after half term, 2.10 the following week, and so on. If they object, point out that he is by law entitled to full time education, and if they don't like that you will insist on his legal entitlement and will be coming to collect him at the end of the school day like everyone else.

And if they don't like that, go to the council for their support, and speak to SOS SEN. They might be prepared to help you with paying a solicitor to send a letter threatening legal action, because the school is certainly acting illegally.

bialystockandbloom · 23/05/2014 20:45

saintlyjimjams and others are absolutely right here. School are taking the piss and doing something illegal. Your (past) lateness is absolutely irrelevant. They have a legal duty to provide full-time education if that is what you want, and unless your statement specifies "education otherwise" that is what they have to provide.

The thing that jumped out at me was in one of your first posts that you haven't seen his statement Shock

How can that be possible? His statement can only be agreed by you, it cannot be finalised without your signature, and you must should have been provided a copy - if not they have again broken the law.

Ring the SEN dept at your LA first thing monday to demand a copy if you do not have one.

Also go to the SN children's board, tons of experience there about this kind of crap from LAs and schools.

longjane · 23/05/2014 21:14

As your son is statement you could get transport from your LA .
Ring their transport dept.

Fram · 23/05/2014 21:26

The school ABcompletelyU! How dare they deny him a day's education if 'his' TA is on a course? And how dare they not give him full-time education when they are funded to do so, and given extra money to provide 1:1 too. I would be livid in your situation, you seem remarkably calm about it! I hope it is resolved soon, and your son receiving the education he deserves.