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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To just ignore the school and proceed with the prearranged times?

110 replies

extremepie · 23/05/2014 14:45

Posted on here a few times before about Ds' school but here's a quick recap:

Ds2 has ASD and is currently on a part time timetable due to him and the school not coping with a full day.

The agreement, as has been discussed many times at various TAF/TAC meetings was that his school day should be extended by 5 minutes a week so that he should be attending full time by the time the summer holidays start.

There have been some lateness issues on my part, not quite getting there on time for pick ups and the school agreed that as long as I was on time, his school day would keep extending.

Since at least Easter I have been making a real hard effort to be on time every day but so far his school day has still not extended past 2pm!

I'm getting really irritated with this now as after all my efforts to improve my timekeeping it has not made any difference and I'm even more annoyed that Ds continues to miss out on a full day of school because they refuse to keep to the agreement!

I also suspect that part of the real reason they won't extend it is because they would rather allocate his 1:1 worker elsewhere in the afternoons and him leaving school early makes this easier for them :(

Wibu to just pick him up at 2:15 when they go back after half term, (as that is the time he should have been up to if they had stuck to the agreement,) instead of 2pm? And then to just increase the time by 5 minutes a week regardless of what they say?

OP posts:

Original poster

extremepie · 23/05/2014 16:38

Liz they redeploy the 1:1 at lunchtime, so he's not with 'his' 1:1 from end of lunchtime till pick up time.

I do have regular reviews about this with his class teacher, his 1:1, ed psych, social worker and HT who is also the Senco. They have brought up the lateness before, hence why I have been making extra effort to be on time. Everyone involved with him at school is aware of the timetable!

As I said up thread, they don't bring him out until I turn up so he won't be standing outside waiting he will be occupied with something - I plan to tell them I'm not coming till 2:15 by the way not just not turn up :D

OP posts:

tethersend · 23/05/2014 16:39

It doesn't matter if you rock up at 10am swigging from a can of Kestrel, your son is still entitled to a full time education.

A parent being late doesn't change this entitlement.

BerylStreep · 23/05/2014 16:40

Could you ask the 1:1 for a debrief each day? Thereby making sure (s)he is there with your DS?

I do think you need to write to the school and advise that as per the agreement of XXX you will be collecting your DS at 2.15 after half term.

(although if the buses only go hourly, will you still need to get the 12.30 bus? I suppose even if it means hanging around longer, your DS is still benefiting from the extra teaching time)

fillie · 23/05/2014 16:40

I can see your frustration at the lack of sticking to the agreement.
But it's really not ok to pick your child up late. When he does go to full time, you won't be able to be late then. You have to allow time for traffic and such, it's part of being a responsible parent.
Maybe the school have a reason for sticking to 2pm finish, maybe you need to ask them in a letter so they can't fob you off. And state that you intend to collect him 5 mins later each week as agreed unless they can give you a good reason to keep it at 2pm.
I assume the gradual increase in time was suggested so it was less impact on your son, if so it would be unhelpful to him to suddenly up it by 15 mins.

JodieGarberJacob · 23/05/2014 16:40

I'd be more concerned about how much time he's spending out of the class. Is he disruptive or a danger to other pupils? I can see the benefit of out of class work for e.g. Maths and literacy if he is more than a year behind the rest of the class, but the rest of the time he should be in class with a 1:1 and differentiation.

rumbleinthrjungle · 23/05/2014 16:42

Good that the Ed Psyche is involved. The SEN Officer is very likely in the same building/down the hall and the two of them will know each other and liaise often, so ringing them both should get them on the school's case more purposefully.

tethersend · 23/05/2014 16:42

I would contact your son's caseworker on the SEN team, and explain that the school are not adhering to the agreement.

After all, they are funding the 1:1 support, and may wish to adjust the amount of money given to the school if the 1:1 is not being used by him full time.

JodieGarberJacob · 23/05/2014 16:43

Oh sorry, is it due to his sensory needs?

Original poster

extremepie · 23/05/2014 16:46

Yes Beryl I would still need to get the 12:30 bus but I don't mind that on the basis that the time is gradually increasing and I can see some light at the end of the tunnel so to speak!

I always ask the TA who does have him at the end of the day (how his behaviour has been, whether he ate lunch etc) but often I get 'sorry I don't know' because they aren't the ones with him in the morning, it is frustrating :( That's why I'm pretty sure his 'actual' 1:1 is busy elsewhere because she is obviously too busy/preoccupied to do the hand over - not her fault just what she's been asked to do!

OP posts:

BerylStreep · 23/05/2014 16:46

X post - I see from your update that you only occasionally get the bus - sorry, I got the impression that this was a daily thing.

tethersend · 23/05/2014 16:46

"Maybe the school have a reason for sticking to 2pm finish, maybe you need to ask them in a letter so they can't fob you off. And state that you intend to collect him 5 mins later each week as agreed unless they can give you a good reason to keep it at 2pm."

The school really don't have a leg to stand on here. They cannot insist on a 2pm finish for any reason; in fact, the OP would be within her rights to insist that he stays until home time, but is being gracious and allowing the time to go up in increments (perhaps for her son's benefit).

If the school cannot cope with him, they need to convene an emergency Annual Review and discuss whether or not they are able to meet his needs.

Original poster

extremepie · 23/05/2014 16:50

Jodie I think it's mainly due to a combination of him not being able to cope with the set tasks on the same level as the others and him being able to comply with the same things as the other children, sitting on carpet and being still & quiet for x amount of time, that sort of thing.

He joins in with things they feel he can manage like cooking, crafts etc but had his own workstation and works at his own level for stuff like writing.

OP posts:

saintlyjimjams · 23/05/2014 16:51

This sounds crap extreme. I would do the same as you & tell them you are arriving later. I'd also query the 5 minutes later - think that would drive my son mad. I suspect it is then who are not coping rather than him (funnily enough I was told my son couldn't cope with a full day, funnily enough he coped fine once he was in a school that understood SN.

Have you spoken to IPSEA about the legalities of them sending him home early. He's of compulsory school age - they need to cope, if they can't they need better support, if they still can't he needs to be a school that can meet his needs

TortoiseUpATreeAgain · 23/05/2014 16:51

I don't think you can just turn up at 2.15, but you can probably tell them that you'll be picking him up at 2.15 the week after half term, as per the existing agreement and the advice from the ed psych. I don't think they can just unilaterally decide to send him home at 2pm every day.

nahidontthinkso · 23/05/2014 16:53

extremepie My DS also has ASD and full time statement and was on part time timetable (agreed with me,school and LA) for a few months.
The school are taking the piss. 18 months is taking the piss.
You need to ask for an interim statement review with the School, SEN officer, social worker and any other professionals that are involved and get this sorted out. Use the meeting to address the issues with the TA swapping and the school day not being extended and be prepared to consider whether ms is really right for your DS.
Most schools give kids 2 TA's if they have a full time statement, 1 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon as it can be quite draining to look after a high needs kid all day. However your DS should really have the same TA each afternoon and not just whoever happens to be available.

Don't go down the route of turning up at the end of the day because you will make yourself look bad. Turn up when the school have asked and thrash all this out in an interim review where professionals can back you up and try and help sort out this mess.

Original poster

extremepie · 23/05/2014 17:04

Fillies my eldest son goes to the same school so if ds2 was full time I would be picking them up at the same time :D

There was talk last year of extending his school day by half an hour every 2 weeks so he was full time by summer if he hit specified behaviour targets, as far as I know he did hit his targets but his day was not extended at all :(

OP posts:

tethersend · 23/05/2014 17:21

FGS, he doesn't 'earn back' a full time education; it's his entitlement, not a reward.

When was the last Annual Review?

Original poster

extremepie · 23/05/2014 17:23

April!

OP posts:

insanityscatching · 23/05/2014 17:27

It shouldn't be a case of him being able to attend full time if he reaches behaviour targets, or if your timekeeping improves or any other obstacle the school choose to put in your way. Legally he is entitled to attend full time and the school are illegally excluding him five days a week and have been for eighteen months! Speak to IPSEA or SOSSEN and get your child the education he is entitled to.
The part time hours are purely for the school's benefit, you are saving them and the LA money, if the school can't support your ds full time with the support he currently has then they need to review his statement as a matter of urgency.

MrsWinnibago · 23/05/2014 17:30

YANBU. Just because you've been historically late does not give them the right to rob your son of his right to an education.

TELL them that the arrangement is changing as per your agreement from next term....after half term I mean.

Don't ASK them.

If you are late at any point, you can insist that they treat this issue as a separate one from your son's educational plan. It has feck all to do with it.

Yes...lateness is a bother and needs to be fixed but it has nothing to do with the arrangement.

Imagine if my non asd child lost 5 minutes a day of her education because I was late!

Original poster

extremepie · 23/05/2014 17:33

It's funny because this plan was put in place around the time of the last review and the school felt that they were coping with him!

He's still on the waiting list of the local SN school but it was felt that because his current school is coping it isn't worth continuing at this stage - thing is, I think they have done well with him, particularly recently and he has made really good progress it's just the length of the school day and his inclusion in the lessons that's an issue for me - they seem to be working on the inclusion in lessons but seem to come up with every reason under the sun not to extend his time in school! That's what I'm annoyed about, if that was sorted I would be a lot happier :(

OP posts:

saintlyjimjams · 23/05/2014 17:33

But the OP isn't late. She's picking him up an hour and a half early every day.

If the rest of the school were told 'we don't have suitable staff to educate your children in the afternoon do you'll have to be there at 2pm & don't be late' there would be an outcry.

Original poster

extremepie · 23/05/2014 17:35

I think that's exactly it Mrs, if my eldest son lost chunks of his day, or any other child in the school because their parent was late it would be really bad!

It feels like they're punishing him for my past mistakes :(

OP posts:

Original poster

extremepie · 23/05/2014 17:38

Ha that's a good way of looking at it saintly!

He has missed whole day of school in the the past before because 'they're (the ta's) on a course today so there isn't anyone in school to look after him so you'll have to keep him at home!'

OP posts:

Owllady · 23/05/2014 17:38

What rumble said, he is now entitled to escorted paid transport to and from school now too
You need to contact some kind of advocacy service imo, if you don't know the protocol (none of us do to start with!)

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