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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think it proves lots of people want change

999 replies

adsy · 23/05/2014 07:41

That ukip are making such huge gains in the elections.
If mnetters could temper their hysteria of screaming racism, I think it is a clear indication that the fundamental principals of the party of no toEurope and no to continued mass immigration are very important to a lot of people

OP posts:
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6
claig · 25/05/2014 10:48

That was some 22 year old kid that nobody has ever heard of.

But this is a left wing Labour MP who stood for leadership of the Labour Party

"On 18 May 2010, news broke that McDonnell wanted to stand in the Labour Party leadership election, to be held following the resignation of Gordon Brown, and would announce it the following day at the Public and Commercial Services Union conference in Brighton. McDonnell noted that it would be "difficult" to get the 33 nominations needed from the parliamentary Labour Party required to stand in the election.[2] He stated during a speech at the GMB Union Congress on 7 June that he wished he could "go back to the 1980s and assassinate Thatcher" [24] He later apologised for the remark which was described as "sickening" and "distasteful". [25] On 9 June 2010, the deadline for nominations, he had secured 16 nominations and withdrew from the election.[26]"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McDonnell_(politician)

Has Miliband sacked him?

claig · 25/05/2014 10:51

"The Prime Minister accused would-be MP John O'Farrell of "speaking up for terrorism" after writing in a book that he felt a "surge of excitement" on hearing that Brighton's Grand Hotel had been devastated by a bomb during the 1984 Tory conference.

And Mr Cameron also savaged the candidate for a "lack of patriotism and national pride" for wanting Britain to lose the Falklands War.

He repeatedly urged Labour leader Ed Miliband to apologise for the candidate's "appalling views"."

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/380737/Eastleigh-by-election-David-Cameron-s-fury-at-Labour-candidate-s-Thatcher-bomb-jibe

These aren't 22 year old kids that nobody has heard of or councillors that were sacked and will never be heard of again.

ilovesooty · 25/05/2014 10:52

claig none of that from 2010 is relevant to the sort of candidate UKIP attracts. And this 22 year old you dismiss as an irrelevance was standing for public office last week. Neil Hamilton is UKIP's Deputy leader apparently. He doesn't come out of this with much credit:

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/23/ukip-pug-ugly_n_5378229.html

I take it you're not going to dismiss Hamilton so glibly?

ilovesooty · 25/05/2014 10:54

I'm asking you to comment on UKIP claig, not to summon up arguments that other parties have had their share of scandals.

I don't see how you can defend it, but that is the true face of the party you've trurned to.

claig · 25/05/2014 10:54

"Blunkett 'wanted to shoot rioters'

David Blunkett told the prison service to call in the Army and "machine-gun" inmates during the 2002 Lincoln Prison riots, the former director general of the service has claimed.

Martin Narey said the former Home Secretary was "hysterical" when he telephoned him on the evening of the riot, and told him to order staff back into the prison.

Mr Narey, who is now Chief Executive of Barnado's, wrote in The Times: "He shrieked that he didn't care about lives, told me to call in the Army and 'machine-gun' the prisoners and - still shrieking - again ordered me to take the prison back immediately. I refused."

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blunkett-wanted-to-shoot-rioters-420449.html

claig · 25/05/2014 10:58

'I don't see how you can defend it, but that is the true face of the party you've trurned to.'

I am not defending it. They are idiots, like the Labour candidate in Scotland who referred to pensioners as "coffin dodgers". But let's not equate 22 year nobodies and kids with leading Labour people.

Those commenst are not the true face of UKIP. It is an insult to great people like Diane James, Suzanne Evans, Lisa Duffy, Nigel Farage, Paul Nuttall and the millions of UKIP voters and thousands of UKIP members to say that those views are the true face of the party - which is in fact according to polls, now Britain's favourite party.

ilovesooty · 25/05/2014 10:58

claig instead of digging up stories to discredit other parties, could you possibly address the question put to you?

ilovesooty · 25/05/2014 11:00

So how do you stand on Hamilton's contribution? Is he not the "true face of UKIP" either? If he isn't why is he the Deputy leader? Is it appropriate to suggest that some women like people "talking dirty to them"?

AllTheMadmen · 25/05/2014 11:00

I don't think calling UKIP on a few wild members is helpful.

Do people care?

The parties are all rife with corruption and dubious individuals, a quick google shows no party, even the lib dems comes out with a squeaky clean membership.

Labour has peados, and so do Lib Dems, does that make them a party of peados? No.

If the party you stand by, is squeaky clean, by all means throw mud but if its not....

JanineStHubbins · 25/05/2014 11:01

Britain's favourite party

Nope, still not true, no matter how many times you repeat it. 17% of a low turnout. And Labour won as many seats as UKIP, Lib Dems and Cons put together.

claig · 25/05/2014 11:02

Hamilton was trying to make a joke. He didn't want rioters shot. It is still a free country, he made an unfunny joke.

ilovesooty · 25/05/2014 11:03

How is it "an insult" to UKIP voters and members? They're happy to vote the likes of this candidate and Small in. I know Ellery stood as an Independent but UKIP haven't decided whether they've suspended him, and his UKIP candidate father defends him.

ilovesooty · 25/05/2014 11:04

If you think Hamilton as Deputy leader should remain in post after that "unfunny joke" it's shameful. Why hasn't Farage condemned him?

claig · 25/05/2014 11:05

'They're happy to vote the likes of this candidate and Small in'

What did they see his facebook comments on the election slip? How did the thousands of people voting UKIP know what that idiot had said?

ilovesooty · 25/05/2014 11:05

And Janine, spot on.

Fontella · 25/05/2014 11:05

Never read such a load of tripe in my life as I've read from the anti-UKIP brigade on here. Can do nothing better than hurl accusations of racism and xenophobia and sexism and go on about how ‘ashamed’ they are. Have you just woken up or something? Have you not been watching what has been happening in Greece, Ireland, Portugal ... even Spain and Italy. Have you not been aware of the growing tide of discontent at the meek submission to EU dictats and the forcing of an open door immigration policy on a small island, already one of the most densely populated areas of Europe, whose infrastructure is already stretched to breaking point, and which cannot police its own borders?

We are a third the geographical size of France with the same population. We are fifth the size of Germany, smaller than Italy, half the size of Spain which has less than 2/3rd our population. We are smaller than 10 of the USA's 50 states and our island would fit inside Alaska, Texas, California, Montana, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, Wyoming and Oregon - take your pick. The US is 40 times bigger than us in terms of geographical size but has only 5 times the population.

We aren't a vast country like Canada or Australia or the USA (all of whom have strict immigration controls, and who quite rightly have the right to police their own borders.) We are tiny, and we simply cannot continue to have open door immigration from every part of the EU, just because Brussels tells us we must. It's got nothing to do with racism, but so many of you seem unwilling or unable to see that.

Instead of wringing your hands, moaning and groaning about sad days and feeling 'ashamed' about those of us who have finally said 'enough', look instead at the real issues that have brought about this surge in UKIP support in the first place. Look at how the concerns of ordinary people have been ignored for years. Look at the broken promises from Cameron, the ineptitude of Miliband, the arrogance of Clegg - simpering Europhiles the lot of them.

I've been watching Farage for years, and instead of taking him seriously they tried to dismiss him and his supporters as loons, and bigots, not a serious threat. Well a whole swathe of the British public have now decided they'd rather have Farage than the duplicitous, cowtowing, self-serving political muppets we've had to put up with for years. If you can't bring yourself to listen to Farage, then listen instead to the Conservative MEP Dan Hannan. You'll find plenty of his speeches on youtube. Hannan is an immigrant himself, so can hardly be accused of being a racist. Listen to what he has to say about the EU? Talks more sense than any politician I've ever heard in my life and yet sadly goes completely under the radar, and is all but ignored by his own party leadership.

What you all seem to be forgetting is that this was a European election and I (and many thousands like me) voted UKIP because I despise every molecule of the corrupt, anti-democratic, federalist, bureaucratic, monolithic gravy train that is the EU. UKIP are the only party who are willing and able to put a spanner in the works of the federalist machine that trundles on down the road of political and fiscal union. They've been doing it from inside the European parliament for years and the more UKIP MEPs we can send to Brussels the better as far as I'm concerned.

I stress again this was a European election and if you don't want to see the UKIP vote carrying through to a General Election then you would be better served in urging the parties you support to look seriously at the issues that caused so many of us to vote UKIP in the first place, instead of dismissing us as loons, racists and bigots. At the moment UKIP don't have a single MP in Westminster and if the political establishment and non-UKIP supporters don't wake up, stop hurling the insults and actually start listening, then there will be.

A good start would be a firm commitment to a referendum on continued EU membership. Not vague promises that are then reneged on, but a firm date. There is absolutely nothing to stop this happening other than the reluctance on the part of the main party leadership. Both Labour and the Conservatives have a significant number of eurosceptic MPS but their views are being suppressed or worse still ignored by their respective leadership. Forget the LibDems entirely - their sycophantic attitude to the EU makes them beyond reach for any one who is pissed off with the EU, hence the defection of so many LibDem voters (of whom I was previously one) to UKIP.

What are the main parties so afraid of? Give the people a referendum and let us decide if we want to carry on down the road to a federalist Europe. That's what democracy is.

And that's what is what you've just seen in action. Democracy. One person one vote. And some of us chose to vote UKIP. You accuse us of being bigots and racists and so on, but somehow fail to miss the irony of you finding it completely acceptable to hurl insults and make sweeping generalisations about us - some of the things I've read on here are utterly disgusting. Everything from 'thick cunts' from one eloquent poster to 'vile' and so on.

Insult away, because it's not going to change anything or stop anyone from supporting UKIP. In fact you are more likely to harden resolve if you continue. I am not thick, racist, sexist or any of those things and neither are many other people who voted UKIP on Thursday, but you seem unable and unwilling to see that and just continue wringing your hands and hurling the insults. All you are doing is alienating your fellow citizens who are no more racist or xenophobic than you are, but who have simply had enough of the political elite in Westminster and in Brussels.

If you want to stop UKIP in its tracks then start looking at the issues that caused people to support them in the first place and urge your party be it Green, Conservative, Labour .. whoever, to start addressing those issues, otherwise I'm afraid UKIP support will keep on growing and you can wring your hands, insult, moan, be ashamed, scream 'racist' all you like and it won't make the blindest bit of difference.

snakeandpygmy · 25/05/2014 11:06

Ok, a couple of points from the article I linked to upthread;

Last Thursday elections were held in some local authorities in the UK. Labour won an additional 339 seats, meaning they now hold more seats than all other parties and independents combined. The Conservatives lost 172 seats, the Libdems 254, so whilst some councils went to No Overall Control, Labour gained control of an additional 8 councils including Cambridge, in a landslide.

UKIP, whose chances had been bolstered by a multi-million pound advertising campaign and media ubiquity of its Leader Nigel Farage, lost incumbents all over the country, being virtually wiped out in every major city including London, where all UKIP councillors were shown the door. Nevertheless they gained 128 seats, which represents a drop in their share of the vote of 6% when compared to the same time last year.

... with 4.4% of seats, UKIP hasn’t won as many as the BNP did in 2009 – 6.2%.

Smoke and mirrors chaps, smoke and mirrors. Which isn't to say we shouldn't be worried, but not about UKIP being the next party of Government.

I'm off to the count this afternoon - PR so will be interesting

ilovesooty · 25/05/2014 11:06

So UKIP voters don't bother to do any research on their candidate's views? Or did he put on an act and present himself as someone toally different? Do UKIP not vet their candidates?

claig · 25/05/2014 11:07

Because Farage does not see that as a sackable offence. Making an unfunny joke isn't a sackable offence. It is a free country and people are allowed to make mistakes and say unfunny things.

AllTheMadmen · 25/05/2014 11:08

It seems a sensible and progressive idea and surely at a time when we have a Prime Minister with a disabled son (Gordon Brown's son, Fraser, has cystic fibrosis) and an Opposition leader who has been through the most terrible experiences, we ought to be able to make real progress in how we care for the disabled and their families. We have to start looking after these people

Excerpt from Rosa Monckton in the DM.

Isnt this shameful! At that time TWO leaders in gov with

claig · 25/05/2014 11:10

'I'm off to the count this afternoon - PR so will be interesting'

Have a great time, snakeandpygmy.
PR is fantastic. It is the future and I can't wait until we get it in general elections.

ilovesooty · 25/05/2014 11:12

Because Farage does not see that as a sackable offence. Making an unfunny joke isn't a sackable offence. It is a free country and people are allowed to make mistakes and say unfunny things

So Farage won't distance himself from such comments. That tells me a lot about him. And the fact that you put up such a weak defence instead of condemning them outright claig is shameful too, IMO.

claig · 25/05/2014 11:15

"Britain's favourite party
Nope, still not true, no matter how many times you repeat it."

"The UK Independence Party is the most favourably regarded of all the main parties, according to a ComRes opinion poll exclusive to tomorrow’s Independent on Sunday and Sunday Mirror."

blogs.independent.co.uk/2014/01/18/ukip-the-most-popular-party-in-britain/

Back later. Am off to Sainsburys to get champagne in for tonight's vote results. Someone said it might be an earthquake so I will need champagne to ignore the tremors.

WetAugust · 25/05/2014 11:17

Com tells. Great post. Shame others can't see the situation were in so clearly as you can.

JanineStHubbins · 25/05/2014 11:19

That opinion poll is almost six months old. And, as we all know, there's only one poll that matters - that's the poll on Election Day.

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