to think it proves lots of people want change

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That ukip are making such huge gains in the elections.
If mnetters could temper their hysteria of screaming racism, I think it is a clear indication that the fundamental principals of the party of no toEurope and no to continued mass immigration are very important to a lot of people

"Really? I seem to recall a link to a famous redhead, and an area that is crawling with the establishment."

Blimey that sounds exciting. But it is fiction.

I'm not the person making unsubstantiated claims about where journalists went to university - you're making statements you're not willing to back up.

Doesn't lend much credence to your case.

However I'm aware of tabloid political editors who went to the Uni of West Lancs, Edinburgh, and Manchester. I think James Chapman went to Oxford but no idea if he went to Eton.

Yet again Troels I ask you to show me in their Manifesto where they are racist, disablist, sexist, etc. I've asked before, no-one has answered.

'some dodgy spiel which isn't factual '

What dodgy spiel, Custardo?
I always say what I think, I am against spin or dodgy spiel, so if I have said dodgy spiel than it will be by mistake.

Claig, if you're against dodgy spiel, will you back some of your assertions with facts?

Ooh star, I can help with that one, there was a long discussion about what people could and couldn't believe about UKIP's stance on a number of domestic and social issues due to the lack of a current manifesto (reasonable), the lack of published policies on large numbers of issues (less so), the clear distancing from the previous manifesto and what people could or could not believe about UKIP's stance on a number of issues as a result.

About 2pm this afternoon I think.

Star we have established they haven't published a new manifesto but that the last one was pretty horrific and even today UKIP representatives are being investigated for homophobia etc.
There is a track record of comments from Farage and other party members indicating all those things, quoted as nauseam on this thread already. Some excused by "well he said that several years ago, obviously he doesn't think the same thing now". No, now he just tries to remember not to say those things in front of the cameras because it shows him as he is, not as he wishes to present himself.
You may well wish to remain blind to this. Your choice, certainly would not be mine.

x-p Jassy.

Claig it was something you told me a while back, so if it was a fiction then one of your own making!

"I think by championing Farage as a World Statesman and UKIP being a major party it might be best to wait for A, their Manifesto and B, to see how many seats they gain at the next election.

Anything else would be a little presumptuous dont you think?"

OneStepCloser, I don't know Farage, I can only go by what I have seen and heard and all I have seen from him is to take principled positions that go against the current of the establishment opinion on Syria, on Ukraine, on the EU, on the Euro etc. - all very big and important issues. And since one can climb the greasy pole much faster if one toes the line, then I make the assumption that he is principled and honest and has integrity and like the polls suggest the maajority also do, I trust him and would like him to lead the country because I think he would serve our interests best.

And I don't think he is establishment, because he does not toe the line, which is why all the newspapers and establishment are against him.

I tend to share Oborne's view in the Telegraph. I see it as being not part of the establishment

"Now that Mr Farage can no longer be ignored, he is sneered at instead. Even so, it looks possible that next week he will come top in the national vote. This will be a truly astounding achievement. No political party in modern history – not even Neil Kinnock’s Labour in 1987 – has come under such sustained attack and misrepresentation. Mr Kinnock at least had The Guardian and the Daily Mirror; Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title, and several papers are running vendettas against him. Mr Kinnock was treated reasonably fairly by the broadcast media. This is not the case with Mr Farage: consider the lacerating contempt shown towards him by Channel 4 News and its chief presenter, Jon Snow. Nick Robinson, the BBC’s political editor, has also abandoned his usual fairness when dealing with the party."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10830882/British-politics-is-broken-and-only-Nigel-Farage-is-profiting.html

Much though Claig is making me laugh, I need to feed my family. A bientot! Or is that too European of me?

So, unlike the LibDemCons, UKIP change their manifesto? We were promised a referendum on Europe - I'm still waiting. They are running scared.

I don't know why we are all getting so het up - nothing any of you have said have changed my mind about UKIP. Just like nothing any of us have said has changed your mind about being anti-UKIP.

I'm off for my Saturday night curry. And looking forward to tomorrow's results

There 2010 manifesto, which was launched by Farage, was a joke. It was offensive. They can disown it all they like but it's still how they think.

They are a racist, misogynist and homophobic party. It's right to call them on it.

"I'm not the person making unsubstantiated claims about where journalists went to university - you're making statements you're not willing to back up.

Doesn't lend much credence to your case.

However I'm aware of tabloid political editors who went to the Uni of West Lancs, Edinburgh, and Manchester. I think James Chapman went to Oxford but no idea if he went to Eton."

Keep searching. Since you are accusing me of making it up and I know I am right, I don't see why I should help you.

Claig, the Government lost the vote on Syria. Were Labour and other MPs also anti-establishment? Or is the establishment quite a flexible concept?

Is it Oborne or the Telegraph you count as not the establishment?

Is it Oborne or the Telegraph you count as not the establishment?'

No I am saying that Farage is not the establishment.

"A bientot! Or is that too European of me?"

Revenez vite. Et n'oubliez pas que dimanche soir, il y'aura des plumes partout

Le renard UKIPien reviendra.

"Yet again Troels I ask you to show me in their Manifesto where they are racist, disablist, sexist, etc. I've asked before, no-one has answered."

Which manifesto? The one they made disappear or the one they haven't written yet?

With no manifesto, there is no option than to read and listen to what they say and they say things like small businesses shouldn't have to employ women of child bearing age, that they'd like to lower or get rid of maternity pay, they voted against equal pay legislation.

Their last manifesto - which they may have pulled, but they did publish as representing their views had lowering of benefits and congregate communities for people with disabilities.

Their material on their website for this election blames crime rates on Romanian immigrants, not immigration as a whole, but specifically mentions Romanians.

Ok, I misunderstood your sentence there. Any update on the other stuff?

Off to feed my family also, filthy half-breeds though they may be.

Clicky gif.

'Were Labour and other MPs also anti-establishment? Or is the establishment quite a flexible concept? '

Miliband did a great thing and so did Diane Abbott and Farage and others.
I think the establishment is flexible and fluid, but I think there are some issues on which for now they all agree - i.e. they do not want to leave the EU and that is why UKIP is a threat.

But the establishment is not stupid, they are flexible and if they can change eventually. Even the Bullingdon Club probably use the services of spin doctors now. That's the way it goes. Things change and the seats are rearranged. When UKIP hold the balance of power things will change.

'Any update on the other stuff? '

No, I will let you work that one out and then I hope you will have the good grace to accept your mistake.

UKIP won 11 seats locally...yup...the spirit of Alf Garnett is alive and well and living in Basildon....it was ever thus.

Looking out on a sea of fucking yellow and purple here.

Claig

"The person making a wanker sign to Farage was probably a Bullingdon Club member with top hat and tails"

You know Farage went to Dulwich College right? You know he worked as a trader right? He's as privileged as the rest of them.

'You know Farage went to Dulwich College right? You know he worked as a trader right? He's as privileged as the rest of them.'

George Orwell went to Eton, but he was one of us.
Being one of the people is available to anyone from any background. It means standing up for ordinary people and their rights.

Tony Benn was one of us even though he had to renounce a Viscount or something like that.

Did you see the ordinary people in Essex shaking Farage's hand?
DId you see the Bullingdon Club member in top hat and tails making a wanker sign at Farage?

That tells you everything you need to know. Farage is one of us.

And Farage s privileged background is something claig stubbornly refuses to acknowledge. He is not ordinary. He is not Just Like Us. Painting himself like that is spin, which claig professes to despise.

I would imagine those who are drawn to Farage on a personal level are those who smiled indulgently every time the Duke of Edinburgh came out with one of his gaffes.