to think it proves lots of people want change

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That ukip are making such huge gains in the elections.
If mnetters could temper their hysteria of screaming racism, I think it is a clear indication that the fundamental principals of the party of no toEurope and no to continued mass immigration are very important to a lot of people

Kids don't give a fuck.

StarGazeyPond, we are all together. It is us vs them - the Bullingdon Club elite and their media chums. Slowly, slowly more and more people are seeing through the spin and lies.

You do make me chuckle said Hester

Well, get ready to laugh even more tomorrow when the European Elections results come in...........we can all laugh together for once.

Leaving the EU is a defensible policy (I disagree with it, but democracy, eh?) but not having a worked out plan for what's next (or not being willing to talk about it) doesn't strike me as statesmanlike. It's strikes me as someone peddling snake oil to the desperate.

I agree with you Jassy and the fact is that the Big 3 have not been willing to even consider leaving the EU. They won't even give the electorate a referendum. It's an accepted fact by even the Tories that Heath blatently lied to the UK population when he assured us that the EU was just a common market. He knew it's ultimate aim was political union but he lied to this country. That's why we want a referendum now - so we can actually vote for the first time for or against political union.

You do hear people saying 'it'll all be ok if we leave the EU / stop immigration' and UKIP are capitalising on that, but what's behind the curtain? What's next after leaving the EU? What happens in the next 4.5 years if they were to be elected?

Years ago UKIP were a single issue party - leaving the EU. Should they ever have formed a Govt the plan was to remove the UK from the EU and then disband as a party. Now UKIP has morphed into a separate political party, which is a change in direction and probably an acceptance that power will take generations to achieve (like the Liberal grass roots plan). What would happen were they to be elected will be published in their manifesto - as will all the other parties. But we already know that they want a referundum on EU membership and they will be actively campainging for an OUT vote.

I can only repeat what I've heard from the Leader and his Deputy. They want an NHS free at the point of delivery. They want an end to open door immigration from other EU member states. Tey want immigration based on a points system such as that operated by Australia. They want a reducation in the red tape that burdens small business - much of it generated by Brussels. They want the UK to stop paying 55 million a day to Brussels and to start spending that money on UK citizens. They want to increase defence spending. That's just a few of their policies.

There was a chap on R4 today saying that the EU policy on open door immigration actually discrimmates against UK citizens.
If you wish to marry someone who comes from a non-EU country you have to earn quite a bit of money before your spouse is allowed to live in the UK. That is affecting the British Asain community and those with spouses from former Commonwealth countries. Meanwhile, any EU citizen is free to move to this country and bring their spouse with them without any earnings qualification. This is an injustice.

Only about a third of the electorate voted. Those that did 17% voted UKIP. Hardly hordes.

I'm not going to laugh at all.

I'm making no comment about UKIP for once. I just know that claig
appears to know everything, has a strong opinion about everything under the sun and sounds more deranged zealous with every post. That's what makes me chuckle. We've had discussions several times. I think we agreed once about something - can't remember what it was :)

Thanks Claig. Although I don't think approval rating (how are they doing at their job as leader if their party - that's the wording of the satisfaction question) is the same as popularity(how many people would vote for them or their party). I'd say Farage is doing a stunning job leading UKIP. I wouldn't vote for him in a million years.

Seems a lot of people feel the same, given that on a predicted whole country basis compared with last year's locals, the UKIP vote has actually dropped.

Lazy journalism from the source you cited. But hey, these media elites with their anti-UKIP crusade, what are you going to do?

'we can all laugh together for once'

We all laughed out loud on Thursday night when the BBC interviewed a woman sitting in car and asked her why she was voting UKIP.

The answer was straight and to the point and resonated with millions

"Because the other lot can go stuff themselves".

There'll be feathers everywhere on Sunday night.

Your posts have been brilliant on this thread Claig. You are spot on.

Ok, Wet, but when others say they've heard Farage or Nuttall say things - such as quoted up thread on being able to buy your way to the front of NHS queues, or on pregnant women / women of childbearing age?

Where are the policies, please, if the public statements aren't consistent? Is their income tax policy still a flat rate tax? Do they still want to abolish inheritance tax, including on the super-rich? What's their policy on employment rights? What are they going to cut to pay for increased defence spending?

These things matter, and it seems UKIP are hiding their light under a bushel if they're here to lead us out of the darkness.

Seems a lot of people feel the same, given that on a predicted whole country basis compared with last year's locals, the UKIP vote has actually dropped.

It on;y appears to have dropped because of the London factor. The fact that only 1/3 of councils are elected annually so you can't compare like with like - except every 3 years.

Don't fall for the spin. They want you to believe the UKIP vote has fallen.

Stops you talking about why the Con or Lin vote has fallen.

It's called spin

I'd rather have MEPs who are going to stand up for British interests in Europe as long as we're members of it but I'm clearly in a minority. Oh, no, hang on....

You talk about the money we send to Europe. Can you provide net figures instead, please? It's more honest - the other figure is pure spin designed to make people think if we left Europe, we'd get all that cash back.

'how many people would vote for them or their party'

Don't forget that the Bullingdon Club have made sure that we have a first past the post system where most of the public is really disenfranchised and where their votes don't count because they are in what the Bullingdon Club call "safe seats".

If we had a real democratic voting system - a proportional system, then we would get the government the public really wanted.

'on a predicted whole country basis compared with last year's locals, the UKIP vote has actually dropped.'

Yes, that is what the spinners keep saying on TV. The Etonian political editors of what are supposed to be popular tabloids don't say that last year the votes were in the shires rather than the metropolitan cities which is why UKIP's vote has dropped this time. But if the votes had been in the shires this time, then UKIP would have rocketed even higher because the dam has burst, the people have "passed the tipping point", now they have had enough.

Thanks, lemonmuffin1

Others can say what they like. They are probably quoting 6th hand opionions of some other people.

What I have told you is straight from te horses mouth - out of the mouths of the Leader and Deputy Leader - not spin.

I have piccies (OK blurred ones) to prove it

xpost, WetAugust about the London votes. Spot on. They don't want to explain it to the public - those educated Etonian newspaper spinners.

Wet, psephologists are usually pretty good at extrapolating results from local elections to national trends. They're statisticians and experts who make a career out of it. They're usually within the margin of error.

Or are they too part of the vast conspiracy? Is UKIP truly incapable of spin themselves - too pure? Too noble?

(It's worth remembering that London, while a hated anathema to most of Mumsnet, has a fairly large proportion of the population. God, I get bored of people bashing London.)

Claig, which psephologists are you referring to, exactly? Names, please, if you're going to make up nonsense about who they work for and where they went to school.

By the way, can you tell me which leaders of the main five parties went to state schools, while we're discussing elites?

No. He's not, really not. Have you met him Claig? met any of them? I have. Every prime minister since thatch, dozens of ministers and MP's. Many times. And then there's Farage... Statesmanlike is not the word. Genial, misinformed buffoon perhaps. Media courting, work shy toff certainly. I wouldn't trust him to organise a piss up in a brewery, and he loves piss ups (and breweries!)

I wondered when the Farage wags were going to appear on this thread, and they are as painfully evangelical as I'd thought they'd be.

I particularly enjoyed the certainty that a bullingdon club member or media correspondent was the man doing the wanker sign. Despite the poster never having seen the clip... Don't let reality get in the way of that fervent imagination now, dearie.

They're going to save 55 million a day that we currently give to teh EU. They're going to save the overseas aid budget that we pay to countries like India who don't even want it.

That allows increased spending in other areas.

Liberals want a Flat Tax, so that's hardly earth-shattering. Do youthink the current situation where someone on minumum wage has to pay tax and then have his income topped up by benefits is morally acceptable? I don't.

I hope they do abolish IHT. The Tories said they would raise the threshold to 1million - then changed their minds as soon as they were elected.

Here's one for you too Fanny

'Have you met him Claig? met any of them? '

I have not had the privilege of meeting Farage. As for the others, I am pleased to say I haven't.

'Statesmanlike is not the word'

You are right. That doesn't sum it up. It should really be "world statesman"

They appeal to ignorance, and sadly there's a lot of it about.

I voted UKIP because I want to put pressure on the British government to do something about the transfer of power away to Brussels.

However, come the next general election, I fully intend to go back to voting for the party I usually support - which is not lib dem by the way.

(I suspect I am not alone in this).

Meantime, I await the outcome of the European elections with interest.