to think it proves lots of people want change

[adsy]

That ukip are making such huge gains in the elections.
If mnetters could temper their hysteria of screaming racism, I think it is a clear indication that the fundamental principals of the party of no toEurope and no to continued mass immigration are very important to a lot of people

I don't deny any of that, claig. But you can't deny that in making that change, it's becoming increasingly nonsensical to claim they don't have media influence or savvy, that they don't have a professional press machine, or other similar attributes as some on this thread have tried to do.

Melon breath - exactly!

I voted green because that was the ONLY party on my ballot paper that had not said or done anything to make me feel sick and contemptuous in last few years.

"And I live in the ward in my city which is one of the least affected by cultural changes and polled the highest UKIP vote in the council elections."

And that shows that the UKIP vote is not only about immigration. In your ward, those people vote UKIP for other reasons.

'What I'm saying is that UKIP are taking people for a ride.'
Give the people a little bit of credit. It is Cameron and New Labour and Tony Blair and Gordon Brown that took people for a ride and under whose leadership periods, MPs were claiming for duck houses, moats and bath plugs. It was the failed parties that took people for a ride and that is why the people have abandoned them. You don't like it, but that's democracy.

'the former political editor of the Express running his media operation and has managed to convince people he's an outsider, anti-establishment hero with no friends in the media'

Frankly, i don't even think Patrick O'Flynn is very good. I think UKIP should get someone else, but don't think it has anything to do with O'Flynn that I and other UKIP voters think that Farage is "on our side" and anti the entire establishment in wanting to exit the EU.

'And I'd say a good number of the vast majority who didn't vote UKIP are 'real, honest and decent'.'

I was not on about voters. The voters, the public are decent - whether they vote Labour, Tory, Green or UKIP. I was talking about candidates who stand for Parliament. We are going to get new people - decent people, irdinary people and it is they who will listen to the rest of us and represent us properly without claiming bath plugs off us while ignoring us. That is why there has been an earthquake and it has only just begun.

"People are fed-up. People are disillusioned. Nobody in the establishment listened. But they are bloody well listening now, aren't they?"

And that's going to help people how, when they approach their councillor about withdrawal of funding for a service that provided support for children in mainstream school with disabilities or problems accessing social housing despite a high need, when the party representing them doesn't support those things?

Spot on Jassy

Farage has created a very skilful profile for him and his party that appeals cleverly to people's fears whether those are founded in fact or not. He's rich, he's well connected and is in no way "like" the people who claim he's "like us". He's in touch in the sense that he's marketed himself slickly. Nothing else.

' it's becoming increasingly nonsensical to claim they don't have media influence or savvy, that they don't have a professional press machine'

They are learning, they are getting better. But Patrick O'Flynn is not very good. I don't blame him for that, I think it is a hard job. But Farage needs no press officers, because he is best when being open and speaking frankly. He needs no spin and no clumsy press officers trying to manage him.

The truth needs no spin. Farage needs no spin.

UKIP are learning, they are making mistakes. They are mocked by the huge financial backers and Tory high command of the Conservative Party. But like David beat Goliath, they will defeat the mighty Tories because the Tories are arrogant and don't have the truth on their side.

The people are with UKIP, the truth is with UKIP. They won't be stopped now.

The voters in my ward are anti outsiders. Anti immigration whether or not they're affected to a large extent. We're bang next to a constituency with a lot of racial tension. I live here claig and I know the UKIP voters vote on an anti immigration ticket.

Truth? Perhaps Farage would like to be truthful about the money he trousers for being an MEP while attending so rarely.

He's as corrupt as any of them.

And if those voters feel strongly about immigration, shouldn't they have the right to be heard and to be represented? Isn't that what our great system of democracy is for? Or should a metropolitan elite in million pound homes and high-paying jobs with as many bath plugs as they want to claim for provided for them, tell ordinary people what they are allowed to believe and what they are allowed to want?

So how is Farage any different to any other politician? He's claiming off the EU gravy train as they all are.

Of course if my fellow residents want to vote for a party that appeals to their objections to immigration they are entitled to do so. I'm just as entitled to find that party abhorrent.

i am one of those immigrants, come here and ruining everything, i suppose.

i have been here for 13 years, i am a citizen.

will i get to keep citizenship? will i be kicked out? what about my children- their father is english as are all their paternal ancestors, going back into the mists of time. obviously i contaminate them, are they english enough?

what is going to happen to people like me? what will happen to our families?

The media claim UKIP are racist. Why did we have to wait for election night before the BBC and Sky gave airtime to Winston McKenzie of UKIP on our TV screens?

If they put him on Question Time, UKIP votes would rocket. UKIP voters aren't racists, all they want is people who tell the truth and stand up for ordinary people instead of for Brussels bureaucrats and an "out of touch" metropolitan elite.

So you're not going to explain why the non attending MEP Farage is is ordinary, honest and decent then?

They stand up for ordinary people?...except low income families, women, people with disabilities...

Oh yes, those other ordinary people then

Farage must be sitting at home chuckling about how many people he's had for mugs.

"what is going to happen to people like me?"

Nothing will happen to anyone. UKIP are not racists. It is the media who have pushed this message to frighten peiple and stop them voting for UKIP because UKIP is a threat to the system because it is a party of ordinary people and not a gilded Oxbridge metropolitan elite.

UKIP want to bring in a controlled immigration system, a points based system, so that Indian doctors and scientists can take precedence over unskilled workers from the EU if that is the skills shortage that the country is facing. But that is not possible under Brussels EU law. UKIP want to exit the EU and restore the right of ordinary people to vote for their own laws rather than have them imposed on them.

Interesting that Farage has been careful not to stand as an MP anywhere where he might have had a chance of winning . the result if he'd won wouldn't have been anything like as lucrative and he might have had to engage with those ordinary people in his constituency, do some proper work and actually be accountable. It wouldn't suit him to do that.

Isn't there a danger that if the party gets to be all about its leader (the tone on Farage above is slightly messianic) rather than a broad range of policies, then it's worrying for the depth of the party, its internal decision making and it's ability to represent effectively without constant leadership involvement?

But then I think media and public focus in the leaders, their personalities and their presentational skills, rather than the policies of the parties and the credibility of the candidates, is rubbish anyway.

Nearly half of the Conservative parliamentary party wants out of the EU, by the way.

have ukip said that anywhere? if there are too many people here, and the country can't possibly contain them, it follows that some will be turfed out.

"except low income families, women, people with disabilities."

This is media lies. UKIP is teh party that is taking votes from Labour in working class low income areas. Many low income families are voting for the party of the people instead of the party of the Primrose Hill PPE millionaires.

Do you think that UKIP women candidates like Dianes James, Lisa Duffy, Suzanne Evans etc are turkeys voting for Christmas?

Do you think that the 30% of voters voting UKIP have no disabled children or no disabilities?

It is scaremongering by a desperate media and elite who used to call UKIP "fruitcakes", then "racists" and now have had to swallow their pride and say that they now "respect" them.

Farage comes from a privileged background. He's not "ordinary" at all.

They are anti-immigration, though, particularly recent immigration. You'll appreciate that this makes people like chibi and me nervous.

Claig, your post above is straight from the UKIP media script which is getting so tired, as it's used to deflect from the issues in question and stifle debate.

What's UKIP's stance on maternity leave or workplace discrimination against women, then, please? Not their manifesto commitment, just their basic stance. It's not like the issue hasn't come up for the party.

I don't think most UKIP voters have any awareness of the candidates and supporters expressed and documented views on women or disabilities.

And if that's media lies show us statements that prove UKIP will care about the disadvantaged and the vulnerable and work in their interests.

"This is media lies."

They print their own documents with media lies built in? They give interviews and instead of saying what they want they're given lies to say by the media?...

Well then they're clearly not fit to be in politics.