to think it proves lots of people want change

[adsy]

That ukip are making such huge gains in the elections.
If mnetters could temper their hysteria of screaming racism, I think it is a clear indication that the fundamental principals of the party of no toEurope and no to continued mass immigration are very important to a lot of people

She will be demonised by people like sunshine city above
why on earth would I demonise your kid inabeautifulplace?
you worry too much!!

Even Ed Balls came on TV today saying concerns about immigration and something about the Labour party being the one to sort it out. But I suppose it's a start that it can even be mentioned by a Labour politician.

Ok Gordy, it's your birthday and obviously the smiley faces mean what I have said is rubbish.

I presume no posts in the future include the rhetoric of "Tories are evil", because, you know posting history, and yet point to these said evil policies as evidence to support your argument

Aplologies
, haven't read whole thread but find move to UKip upsetting. I think many people see the rapid rise in population as an issue. I watched Question Time last night - if the population has risen by upwards of 3.5 million over the last decade with no investment in infrastructure and primary school places and NHS services, then why shouldn't voters register their discontent? Trouble is, the main parties seem unable to deal with the fact that ordinary people are annoyed when they can't get a house/a school place/ Dr's appointment and blame 'immigration'. I have not voted for UKip and never will. I hope I am not racist (I hate such prejudice) but I can see that a dramatic change in living conditions makes people unhappy and inclined to blame a group. Makes me feel uncomfortable.

Thebog

Ukip was never going to take control of a local council, you obviously don't understand the system.

Oh, please, that's a rubbish argument. They want to make a principled stand? Fine. You want to make a principled stand and donate the money in its entirety to a charity, or even to your own party? Fine.

If people actually fall for the 'I am taking this £100K plus a year and putting it safely in my bank account because I see it as taking a principled stand to highlight the hypocrisy of the system' then god help us all. But UKIP don't make a song and dance about this point of 'principle'. If there's any mention of it on their website, of their candidates' websites, it's well hidden.

The fact is that most people aren't even aware they do this. They vote for anti-immigration and anti-EU rhetoric that resonates with people who are scared, and for a man who affects to be a man of the people with his pint, his fag and his Borisesque affectations.

Paul Nuttall's MEP website claims:

'Over the next five years, he is committed to working tirelessly on behalf of those who elected him into office. As well as defending the UK’s interests in the European Parliament, Paul will campaign in Britain so UKIP can make a breakthrough at Westminster.'

Strangely he doesn't highlight that he plans to show up to few votes, but still claim his allowances, salary and pension. It's not highlighted in their candidate announcement press releases, either.

What you mean UKIP was never going to have a majority of councillors on a local council? Why not?

Agree with you, TheBogQueen - the BBC's coverage has been sensationalist shite. Labour clearly came out on top in these elections, but that's not a 'story' for some reason

Were only a certain percentage if seats up for grabs?

oh blimey Justanotherlurker are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really not get that quoting facts isn't the same as endorsing a policy

Immigrants get JSA straight away ...'no they don't 'link to facts'

try another one ... 'academy schools don't exist' ...'yes they do 'link to facts''

see in both those post facts were used to repudiate the incorrect assumption of another poster (one real one fictitious)

neither comments in anyway praise or celebrate the existence of a policy or the party behind it

ergo I am not a hypocrite of any kind

but you will ignore that because it doesn't fit whatever agenda you have

Night all x

You are absolutely right.

happy birthday gordy & thanks for taking the time to post relevant links on this thread

chibi, to be fair I have felt threatened and unwelcome in many a place I've had to live in the past (ie the several times ive ended up living in a majority pakistani area of a town), and I am a white british person. The threat is real for white people in these areas aswell, many are attacked.

I am definately not overjoyed about it, but as you can see theres very little I can do about it. I just make do, I'm sure you neednt actually feel threatened, its not as if any immigrants will all of a sudden be thrown out the country, and I definately wouldn't agree with doing so either, it would be cruel.

' Britain is a less friendly and safe place to me today.'

Please read my post above. As a white working class girl in the North West UK mining towns, it hasn't been a 'friendly' or 'safe' place for me since I started developing into a woman when I was about 11 years old. Infact I was 13 years old when I started being exploited and pimped out by groups of men, all from pakistan with very non western cultural values. I spent 4 years like that and my life was ruined. No one gave two shits, including the police where I tried to make a complaint several times but the statements magically got 'lost'.

Of course, this isnt the fault of any innocent immigrants but it really does make me think huh? when they have the nerve to state that the country now isn't 'safe' and 'friendly' for them purely because some fringe political party got more votes than people expected them to.

No Gordy, I am not being obtuse, I am pointing out your hypocrisy of using statistics as evidence to support your case, yet when when these measures was introduced you was one of the vocal against the introduction can you not see the irony?

It's not irony

One is fact

The other is opinion

I'm sorry to hear you went through that 22honey. There is a huge problem with integration in some areas, but in general those communities are not from within the EU. We need discussion and debate and then plans of action to deal with such attitudes. The problem with immigrant communities building their own schools - as suggested by UKIP, I believe - is that it keeps those communities within their own narrow confines, exacerbating the problem.

Of course some people of eastern european origin would not share the UK's tolerance of LGBT, so non-EU immigrant communities are not the only ones challenging hard won liberties for women/LGBT etc.

Justanother, you seem to be missing the point. Gordys didn't post that information to back up any particular case, she posted it because people were asking for the information and were apparently too lazy to use Google.

If she'd been using the data to support her cause, she probably wouldn't have included stuff that undermined it. Without going back I think her point was 'all countries have different systems and different rules for when immigrants can access them, some more generous and some less so than ours'. The fact she included policies she may not like, and that didn't necessarily support her case, is a sign that she was taking a rational and fair approach to the issue.

Gordys, I'd suggest in future you add a Twitter-style disclaimer to all your posts: Posting facts about policies does not necessarily mean I support or endorse that policy, I am simply stating its existence'.

It's when discussion of facts attracts accusations of hypocrisy that rational debate goes down the toilet. Where I have spent more than enough time tonight thanks to a stomach bug and I still understood what Gordys was posting.

A lot of people wanting something doesn't make it morally acceptable.

22honey, I'm not denying or negating your experience so is appreciate it if you didn't do that to mine. The anti-immigrant sentiment in mainstream and social media today, and in recent weeks, has been pretty nasty. As an immigrant, a woman and a working mother, it is impossible for me not to feel less welcome and less safe and settled in a country into which I have integrated and make a social and economic contribution, given that an increased proportion of people have made it clear through the ballot box that they support policies that make all of those things much more difficult.

It's an alienating position to be in, surely you can understand that, having felt alienated yourself?

Trolls that's a very good point - about the need for policies to support integration of whatever level of immigration does happen, rather than policies that encourage segregation.

Off the top of my head those might be 5 years enforced private education for the children of new immigrants, or free schools and academies with their own religious admissions arrangements, or state-funded CofE and even Catholic faith schools that effectively segregate communities by selecting based on adherence to certain faiths.

The country is no different to how it was last year. It's just that people are becoming less afraid to let their feelings be known. I don't think there is that much anti-immigrant feeling, but there is plenty of anti-immigration feeling, and even more anti-EU and anti-LibLabCon feeling. You can't stop people feeling the way they do by suppressing it, we should have figured that out by now.

Yes T, and I am not a UKIP voter or supporter, and actually immigration isnt anywhere near the top of the list of things I believe is wrong with the country. The crap social services and education system is something that riles me a lot more.

Jassy I have to say I havnt followed much main news recently, as to me all politicians talk crap and its barely worth listening to what they have to say. Yes I definately understand it and its makes me feel uneasy that anyone is made to feel uncomfortable purely for being an immigrant. I can see why so many people are affectively blaming immigration though aswell.

Tucson, from what I've seen and heard, a lot of people don't separate the too. But as 22honeys has kindly pointed out I'm not entitled to feel unhappy about what's said to and about me and people like me, because I'm not from round here.

I'm incredibly keen to debate the issues, and I know a lot of people are. Scare tactic parties like UKIP aren't doing it based on facts though. I wish the main two parties would have the courage to hold a proper public debate in this - but the only party to do so is the LibDems, so it probably doesn't look electorally attractive for either the Tories or Labour right now.