To think people should't take part in religious ceremonies that they have no respect for

[Vintagejazz]

I was at my niece's first Holy Communion in Dublin today and the behaviour in the Church was absolutely shocking. People chatting throughout the Mass, standing up taking photographs durng the ceremony despite the priest having requested at the start that people wouldn't do this, allowing toddlers to scream and roar without taking them outside, and basically treating the whole thing with no respect whatsoever.
If people don't have any belief and don't see First Holy Communion as a sacred religious event, that's fine. But why take part and ruin it for the people for whom it does have some meaning (not to mention the huge discourtesy to the teachers who had spent months planning, organising and rehearsing so that the event would be meaningful and lovely).
It was awful and someone back at the lunch afterwards told me they were at a Holy Communion last week where the noise was even worse.

Why do people do this? No one's putting a gun to their heads and fording them to take part. Either treat church ceremonies and services with respect, or don't partake.

The problem is, and I say this as an Irish person, communion has really become about money and status and is very little to do with religion. My SIL who lives in the west went up to Dublin to get the dress which I think is a bit OTT. I made my first holy communion in the 80s and got 7 pounds as a present! Now it's 1000 euro and spray tan.

turgiday maybe so but that certainly doesn't seem to be the OPs opinion. It does stand to reason though that children of non practising parents will be less used to the 'correct' behaviour in church. I haven't been to a communion but I have been to Catholic weddings and christening, which included many guests who were either non believers or non practising and I never noted any of the behaviours mentioned by the OP. Perhaps Communions are different though?

This is really about manners rather than about respect for religious services, though, isn't it?

As an out and proud atheist I don't particularly respect religion of any kind - that doesn't mean I'd behave that way at someone else's wedding/communion/funeral/other kind of churchy family event. To me it all comes down to choosing to be there for the sake of people I love - I have respect for them and wand them to enjoy their special day. I'd expect the same from a religious friend/relative attendingone of my secular family celebrations.

That having been said: while an incessantly screaming child should at some point be (and may in fact feel more comfy being) taken outside, and while constant chatting isdistracting, I really don't get this need for formal celebrations to be all solemn and quiet. So what if the baby in row three is heard from every once in a while or your sister laughs quietly at the poor metaphor used by the celebrant? If people are not supposed to behave like people at a family event, why not replace them with dummies? Saves everyone the cost of a fancy dress and a few hours of their lives ...

It's not about being solemn and quiet, though. It's about being civil enough to allow other people to hear the performers, and the performers (especially if they are kids) not to have to battle against chatter and screaming babies.
If you think the whole thing is a boring waste of time (as I do TBH) you have the option of not attending.
I despise all religion and all sport. But if someone important to me was participating in a sporting event or a religious occasion and wanted me there to watch and support him/her I would attend and behave myself. The occasional burble from a baby or toddler, or indeed a hastily-smothered burp or giggle from an adult is no big deal, but making an unapolagetic racket throughout a ceremony that is not about you is just childish, selfish and rude.

I've never known anyone go in and out of weddings because they are bored and want to smoke in the doorway and I bet I've been to close to 100 weddings. Is it a common thing?

It is here, (Italy)

And it don't get more Catholic than here.....

I think it is just that rules (even unwritten manners type ones) aren't taken into consideration. A whole other thread, but this morning in the supermarket, someone just walked up to the front of the queue and barged in and no-one said anything. Except the mad furriner at the back with her bottle of milk.

LAY has totally explained what it is like in this bloody country. I hate this bloody religion ad the stranglehold it has on our educational system.

The CC follow the money- my poor son has to put up with this shit everyday until he is 12! I want this behaviour to get worse- It may highlight that the church should bugger off and stick with those who choose to believe their teachings and stop following the money.

There are very few catholics here that are actual catholics- no birth control-homosexuality is wrong-confession etc

No, my lovely boy will not be making his first communion.

Wow! Before I reverted to atheism, I was quite involved with the CC locally (UK). Many people, especially those who emigrated from Ireland, regarded the Irish CC as the pinnacle of perfection. It's very sad to learn that they're mistaken about that.

But I think that's the OP's poing chunky - that people who despise or have no respect for the sacrament shouldn't be partaking in it. As it is, a lot of parents in Ireland feel like you do but still want their children to make their First Holy Communion but then sit and chat or stand up and take photographs throughout the ceremony - which is most unfair on the parents who genuinely do believe in the sacrament and find the occasion ruined by chatter, clatter, kids screaming and tearing around etc.

I'm not religious in any way shape or form - and don't particular respect religions per say. I respect that people have faith and different beliefs to me.

I've also sat through religious ceremonies I didn't understand or particular think important - I've done it because it's important to someone taking part in it and that person is important to me or my DH or someone else important to me.

What I have is good manners - this like morality is not confined to only religious people.

I have had to distract remove young DC - not always easy - but always done and I expected DC once old enough to show respect and be quiet during ceremonies - religious or otherwise, and I did and expect the same in school or other child performance.

YANBU to expect good manners during any public event.

YABU – to expect non-religious/ or different faith people not to attend religious events because sometimes they go to show support to people important to them.

YABVU – to even slightly imply that only religious people have good manners.

"YABVU – to even slightly imply that only religious people have good manners."

Apologies if that's how it came across. When I said people without respect for the ceremony shouldn't partake I was thinking of the parents of the Holy Communion children who were ignoring requests by the priest and snapping away with cameras throughout the ceremony and standing up at solemn moments to get a better angle. My point was that if you don't respect the importance of a sacrament or ever visit a Church normally it is out of order to take part in that sacrament while simultaneously treating it with a complete lack of reverence - to the point that those who do find it meaningful cannot hear or see the ceremony.

And of course a lot of the onlookers/guests weren't religious but still managed to behave with manners and decorum in the Church. But the ones who didn't, be they non-religious/lapsed or whatever should not have been in the Church.

Yes, if you are in a church you should respect the ceremony and be quiet like you would for a movie. But kids? Let them be there. So what if they make noise? They're the future of the congregation.

Well they're future cinema audiences as well Princess. So is it okay if they go to a film and shout and scream so no one can hear?

Also, if they are going to be future attendants at church ceremonies is it not important that they learn how to behave in a church and that older siblings also understand that it's not okay to shout and scream in a church, or to allow a baby to drown out a bride's vows or a Holy Communion Child's singing or reading?

Well they're future cinema audiences as well Princess. So is it okay if they go to a film and shout and scream so no one can hear?

Well people's eternal souls don't depend on seeing a movie every week you see. There's a difference between a commercial enterprise and spiritual enlightenment. A toddler screaming in church doesn't ruin my salvation or waste my money in the same way a screaming toddler would waste my money for a movie ticket.

I was simply making a point that if you, as an adult should follow movie etiquette in church.

Also, a communion ceremony is part of a regular mass, it's not a separate special mass. So it's not just people that want to go to the ceremony being stuck there, it's also people who go to normal church.

But moreover a church congregation is about fostering a community and that includes toddlers you don't like. A movie is about taking your money for a one off experience.

Here in Dublin a Communion ceremony is a special Mass on a Saturday and the communion children do readings, songs and mimes. How is objecting to a toddler being allowed scream and shout when an 8 year old is doing something they've been rehearsing for ages and their parents and grandparents are trying to listen to them a sign that someone 'doesn't like' toddlers. I really think you should apologise for that extremely insulting remark.

I used to wonder about the mindset of rude parents who could see nothing wrong with their small children being allowed scream and roar during wedding ceremonies. Some of the posts on here have been enlightening, to say the least. There seems to be a certain type of parent who just cannot understand that just because someone's a baby or a toddler, that doesn't mean that they can be allowed to disrupt occasions for other people. And they can dress it up with 'oh a church is for families' 'weddings are about marriage and families' all they like - they're just rude, self centred individuals who cannot comprehend that sometimes you need to bring your toddlers outside.

Our church has a side room for children with toys.

Its unfair to make children plough through a long ceremony.

That said I did find it odd that at our Easter service somebody brought their dog. Although to be fair we had a donkey in there for the Palm Sunday service.

I am not Confirmed so I don't take part in Communion but respectful enough not to start chatting while others are taking Communion.

For me, going to church and listening to the music, the silence and appreciating the solemn ritual of the occasion is important and I don't appreciate noisy children (or adults). At my old church (I haven't found one I like since moving to a different city), children went out during the majority of the service to children's church, allowing the adults to appreciate the sermon, the music and the prayers in relative silence.

Children can be noisy, yes, but they can also be taught that there's a time and a place for being loud, and other times when they need to be quiet.

I am clearly a cantankerous traditionalist and generally accept that my view won't be welcomed, but I agree with the OP - people should be respectful and quiet during a church service (or any other religious service for that matter, if that's what the norm is) and it should be taken seriously.

YANBU at all. But I think the behaviour you describe is not so much an indication that they have no respect for the sacraments as that they have no respect full stop. The same people will probably be complete PITA, rude arseholes at a school concert or nativity play.

Fortunately we do not seem to get this behaviour when the children in our parish make first communion but it is a slightly different set up. They don't try to do the whole class in one go - instead they do groups of up to six at each mass over a four week period. It is not a separate mass just for first communion it is done at one of the ordinary Sunday masses. The few families of the children whose big day it is are then put in special pews and usually the teacher goes to have a chat to each family beforehand to welcome them and manages to pass on the "no photography" request at the same time.

If people don't have any belief and don't see First Holy Communion as a sacred religious event, that's fine. But why take part and ruin it for the people for whom it does have some meaning...Why do people do this? No one's putting a gun to their heads and fording them to take part. Either treat church ceremonies and services with respect, or don't partake

Because the school system in Ireland is fucked?

Perhaps it is a lesson for the teachers next year to send very clear guidelines before the event?

What to expect, what not to do etc.

Looks like it would be helpful for a lot of parents.

If taking photographs is something that lots of parents seem to be doing, it would be logical to me for one person to come and take some proper photos for parents to buy afterwards - proceeds to the church perhaps?

I can't believe a grown adult wouldn't know the difference between a small amount of disturbance/noise such as a baby taking a moment to settle, and full-on disturbance which reaches a level where it becomes rudeness to remain.

Having said that, if people are used to a more informal non-catholic service, the formality might be a shock.

I don't know if anyone here has been to a Hindu ceremony - that is a real eye opener. Constant chatter the whole way through by the entire congregation except for a few people at the front. Very bizarre if you're used to the more formal "sit still and be quiet" of the English churches.

The only religious stuff I do are Christmas and Easter.

I cut the praying and sniffling out and just get to the good stuff.

Well that's very interesting Caruthers, but what has it got to do with the subject of this thread?