To think people should't take part in religious ceremonies that they have no respect for

[Vintagejazz]

I was at my niece's first Holy Communion in Dublin today and the behaviour in the Church was absolutely shocking. People chatting throughout the Mass, standing up taking photographs durng the ceremony despite the priest having requested at the start that people wouldn't do this, allowing toddlers to scream and roar without taking them outside, and basically treating the whole thing with no respect whatsoever.
If people don't have any belief and don't see First Holy Communion as a sacred religious event, that's fine. But why take part and ruin it for the people for whom it does have some meaning (not to mention the huge discourtesy to the teachers who had spent months planning, organising and rehearsing so that the event would be meaningful and lovely).
It was awful and someone back at the lunch afterwards told me they were at a Holy Communion last week where the noise was even worse.

Why do people do this? No one's putting a gun to their heads and fording them to take part. Either treat church ceremonies and services with respect, or don't partake.

It's the people who supposedly do have respect (parents of communicant children) who are causing the problem. They probably are all Catholics. The random atheists who come to a service out of curiosity are probably reasonably polite and well behaved.

A Mass isn't a family gathering, it's a making present of the sacrifice. Cannon law is pretty clear that children are not obliged to go to Mass until they are 7. Personally I've always taken my children to Mass from them being tiny babies, I think that there are many reasons why it is a good idea but they do not have an inherent right to scream and roar simply because it is a church. Part of being in a community is reining in your instinct to behave like a massive entitled twat (parents that is, not babies, but toddlers do learn sharpish that there are places that they need to be relatively quiet). The screaming toddler will one day become the 8 year old with a prayer or a reading or a solo to do and, given the choice, would probably rather have been taken out as a 2 year old than have their HC spoilt as an 8 year old.

There is nothing to stop the child also singing her solo in a private setting later on in the day

You do know that the hymns are an actual part of the service, don't you? Even if they weren't you are either being massively obtuse or deliberately goady to suggest it's fine to scream during someone else's performance because they can repeat it later at home. You don't get a second chance at your first communion.

But at a school play people take their pre schoolers along and have the decency to keep them well behaved.

It is the same thing.

It's having the respect to not disrupt the participants

YANBU people should know how to behave.

But to be honest I can't believe so many of you make your children adhere to such a discriminatory religion anyway.

In my experience, most of these little things taking their first communion are more interested in dressing up in their white outfits than they are in it being a 'sacred religious event'. Mostly a photo opportunity and therefore a less than reverential crowd is all you can expect.

But a percentage of the parents are practising Catholics for whom the sacrament is a very important occasion. Why should parents who no longer practise their religion or have any respect for it insist on taking part in the fancy exciting bits and then ruin them for the genuine believers by behaving like prats in the church?

"I do question whether a child who hasn't been taught that churches are open, public places is actually ready for communion?"

you do not seem to be able to grasp the concept of basic respect and consideration for others. nobody is saying that churches are not open, public places. that does not mean that people should have no consideration. what if it was somebody who was clearly drunk making a disturbance rather than screaming toddlers - would you still think that the children making their communion should get over it and sing their solo later?

"There is nothing to stop the child also singing her solo in a private setting later on in the day" Quote fronm AElfs post

Do you apply that to other public occasion's as well. For instance a matinee of Annie is a 'family gathering' so I presume I can let my 2year old scream and shout during Annie's rendering of 'Tomorrow' because there's nothing to stop her singing it in a private setting later on in the day.

I'm kind of giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you're just deliberately stirring it on here; because otherwise the sheer depth of your ignorance and self absorption would be quite astounding.

"Why should parents who no longer practise their religion or have any respect for it insist on taking part in the fancy exciting bits.... "

If that practising or respecting was the test for taking part, churches would be bankrupt inside a month, not to say empty Weddings, funerals, baptism, first communions, Xmas Midnight Mass .... few of the people participating are true believers any more but the church doesn't care as long as it's 'bums on seats' and 'money in the collection plate'.

There's an obligation to behave considerately in any public gathering. Photos at church service are as irritating as crinkly sweet wrappers in the theatre. But I think you have to be realistic about what the post-paedophile priest church's status really is.

You're making a lot of assumptions Cogito. How do you know all this?
Any priests or practising Catholics I know would far prefer that non practising people who never go near a church ordinarily would stop using them for 'party' occasions like Christenings, Weddings and First Communions. It's hyocritical and makes a mockery of those sacraments - which believe it or not is more important to priests than 'money in the collection plates'.

In our parish church children are given the seats first, and adults made to stand at the back until all the children are seated. People take photos and videos, and even the odd telephone rings and is answered! Little children are not stopped from leaving their places and either going up and down the aisles, or going up to the priest and asking him something mid eulogy. If children want to ask something, they just put their hands up and the priest stops and answers them.

Dd did her FHC exactly a year ago today, in that very parish, and it was fab. Organised so that the children, whose special day it was, were at the forefront of everything, and if that means them causing a bit of chaos, so be it.

I do get that, at certain moments during any church service a bit of hush and a bowed head gets you kudos, but I don't believe for a nanosecond that the old fella with the beard sat on the cloud would have any problem whatsoever with Junior popping up and asking the priest why he's got a red frock on today.

(I do glare very hard when people answer their phones though!)

I'm not talking about Communion Children being allowed to move around the church etc. Of course they have to do that, they're the ones going up and down to the altar to partake. And I have never seen them causing 'chaos'. They have been practising for the ceremony for months, are really invested in it, and know exactly how to behave.

I'm talking about adults chatting, texting, and letting their toddlers scream and shout. Two different things,

No, nor am I.

During particularly long and boring let's face it services (weddings for example) (where let's face it, the only person happy to be present is the bridezilla and possibly the bridesmaid, everyone else would much rather be watching the footy) people go in and out all the time. The doors are open, the blokes go out for a fag, the fag smoke drifts in, we all splutter a bit.

I doubt the transgressors are going to hell though.

YANBU. I have been at two Holy Communion Masses in the last fortnight (in Dublin) and the behaviour of some of the adults attending was atrocious - talking throughout the Mass, posing for photos, letting their younger kids play chasing up and down the side aisles screaming excitedly throughout, standing up and blocking people's view of the altar to take photographs... really awful.
My Godson was doing a bidding prayer at one Mass but I could neither see nor hear him. A woman in front was standing up to get a picture of her son leaving the altar after doing his prayer, so all I could see was her arse; and a child behind me was loudly talking to her mother so that was all I could hear. I had to lie afterwards and tell him he looked and sounded great .
If you go into any public place you should respect the other people there and the ceremony or event that's taking place. All this talk about 'family events' 'children welcome' etc are ridiculous. Just because a place welcomes families doesn't mean that you can then behave as rudely and inconsiderately as you like - and fuck all the other families also trying to take part.

Whether they're going to hell or not Drank they're behaving like ignorant knobs. And I imagine the immediate families of the 'bridezilla' and groom are also interested in the ceremony and in not having it ruined by yobs who think if something is boring for them, they're allowed ruin it for everyone else.

VintageJazz I don't practice for many good reasons but I will probably get my children baptised because Catholicism is an important part of my family's heritage and I valued my Catholic education certainly religion classes honed my debating skills and its something I would like them to have.

Are you saying priests and practising Catholics would prefer that children not receive the sacraments if those children happen to be the offspring of lost sheep like myself? I don't think many practising Catholics would agree with you on that one my mum would flip her lid

I'm sorry but I think popping out for a fag or answering your phone midservice is incredibly rude. It's also fuck all to do with he'll and God and everything to do with good manners, courtesy for fellow man etc. I'd be especially annoyed at having to breathe in the smoke.

Another hardline atheist here and I think this behaviour is rude. It doesn't matter whether it's someone else's boring superstitions, someone else's boring wedding-reception speeches or someone else's excruciating amateur theatricals - if you've agreed to attend, you need to shut the fuck up and stay in your seat. Most people have come to watch the performers/central participants, not an assortment of yawping kids running around and kicking things.

A good example would be the sort of primary school performances a lot of us have to sit through - it is tedious to endure 25 other people's little darlings playing the recorder badly before your own little Timmy or Susy gets to toot and squeal through Three Blind Mice, but you put up with it, make sure your DCs younger siblings stay quiet (or leave them at home) because you expect other people's kids to shut up while yours is centre stage. It's just being polite and playing fair.

We were also at a communion yesterday. That was also incredibly noisy. The children were quite well behaved it was the adults causing the racket. Our priest stopped the service twice to ask for quiet. I find it extremely rude that people can't be quiet for just one hour. You could hardly hear the children reading and the choir singing.

IME as an aethist with catholic relatives, it is catholics attending these occasions who are more likely to behave badly. And my understanding was that catholic services generally have a few kids running round, or screaming.

So YABU because you are blaming this behaviour on people who don't respect catholicism. I think the behaviour of these people is wrong. But those who do it are not IME those like me who do not respect catholicism.

To be honest OP I think you are being a bit disingenuous here about the situation in Ireland. The education system is such that for many people there is no choice but to send their children to Catholic schools. With around 90% of the primary schools being Catholic many areas offer no choice. You either go to the local Catholic school or you don't go to one. All these schools discriminate against non Catholics, so in order to guarantee a place in the local school many people get their children christened.
This is a situation not of their making and is caused by the Catholic church's stranglehold on primary education. Once in the school religion is part of the school cirruculum, no alternative is offered to non Catholic children. They just have to sit there and maybe do some colouring. I personally know a family whose children are not christened, and although they got a place (eventually) in the local school, they were put under a lot of pressure to allow their children join in the religion class, as it was inconvenient for the teacher to have one child sit out.
Given the situation with schools, engineered by church, where basically all education is Catholic run, entry is only guaranteed if you are Catholic and religion is an integral part of the teaching day, it is a bit unfair to then be annoyed that people do opt follow the major sacraments, since it is so difficult not to.
A lot of people don't choose to do it just for the big events they do it because there is no other option.

BTW I am referring specifically to your post about how non practicing people should not avail of the sacraments. On the original point I agree that their behaviour is rude. But it is not surprising that it happens when so many people are basically corralled into a religion they have no interest in due to the set up here.

LayMeDown - It will be practising catholics behaving like this. My mum says it was exactly the same when she was a kid, and it was catholics who behaved this way.

Generally I find people attending who are not religious, tend to be pretty respectful.

It's basic manners and not just confined to church services. The same people would probably talk all the way through a film in a quiet cinema and and be rude arrogant arseholes with no thought for others everywhere they went.