To think people should't take part in religious ceremonies that they have no respect for

[Vintagejazz]

I was at my niece's first Holy Communion in Dublin today and the behaviour in the Church was absolutely shocking. People chatting throughout the Mass, standing up taking photographs durng the ceremony despite the priest having requested at the start that people wouldn't do this, allowing toddlers to scream and roar without taking them outside, and basically treating the whole thing with no respect whatsoever.
If people don't have any belief and don't see First Holy Communion as a sacred religious event, that's fine. But why take part and ruin it for the people for whom it does have some meaning (not to mention the huge discourtesy to the teachers who had spent months planning, organising and rehearsing so that the event would be meaningful and lovely).
It was awful and someone back at the lunch afterwards told me they were at a Holy Communion last week where the noise was even worse.

Why do people do this? No one's putting a gun to their heads and fording them to take part. Either treat church ceremonies and services with respect, or don't partake.

Oh stop with the guff. It is normal consideration, at a special ceremony such as a wedding or First Holy Communion, to ensure that your children don't end up drowning out the meaningful bits of the ceremony. Bringing a squalling toddler out to the porch while the B&G are making their vows or little Sally is singing her sole is not 'turning them away'. Stop being a drama llama.

It is the worst behaved people who most need to be in church. Anyone who thinks someone shouldn't be in church because they are "disrespectful" has completely missed the point of church,

The only person who 'needs' to be in church are the people who want to take part.

You don't take part by using your phone, screaming, shouting, eating or whatever.

There's no guff. These are public ceremonies in the house of God - all welcome.

Yanbu, when my daughter made hers last year some relatives of an other girl in her class were sat behind me and chatted all the way through.
When the time came for the children to go up I turned round and asked them to show some respect and be quiet. They looked very pissed off but the mother of the girl came over later and apologised about their behaviour.

Should have been them really but if they were rude enough to talk all the way through they weren't going to be polite enough to apologise!

Just because they're 'public' doesn't mean that consideration and respect doesn't apply. And you haven't answered my question - do you think it's okay for a toddler to be allowed scream and shout when a bride is making her vows or and 8 year old Communion child is singing the solo that she has been practising for months?
It's a simple yes or no question which you dont seem to want to answer.

Let me simplify it.

Would you be happy for parents to act in this manner at a primary school show/event?

Regardless of the setting it's the behaviour that's at fault surely?

Exactly Normal It's rude and inconsiderate and people who hide behind the 'well it's a Church so everyone's entitled to be there' are just looking for a reason to excuse their self absorbed behaviour.

As for the poster who thinks that because people indulged her toddler's behaviour at a family event, this should mean one toddler should be allowed drown out a religious ceremony centred around many families - Seriously?

Also didn't God say something about 'treating others as you would like to be treated'?

Elf still waiting for you to point out where I said children should be 'banned' from churches.

It is the worst behaved people who most need to be in church. Anyone who thinks someone shouldn't be in church because they are "disrespectful" has completely missed the point of church

We're not talking about the poor sinners in need of God's good grace. Just some chuntering toddlers and crying babies and chatty adults who should know better. I also think the chances of the hand of God reaching out to someone who is rabbiting about nothing during the service and showing them the error of their ways is quite slim, and I say that as someone who believes in miracles.
People talk in the theatre too now. I wonder if they need the theatre more than me, or if I have missed the point of the theatre. It is a public place but if I've paid £45 to be there I don't want people arsing about during it.

I suspect the people who think it's fine or the type of people who confuse 'Christian' with 'Nice person' and confuse 'Nice person' with 'Doormat'.

YANBU OP. First Communion season here too. Am atheist, but DH family Catholic. They take their faith reasonably seriously, but I have also seen the behaviour of others at christenings, communion etc. It's nice to have a party and celebrate of course, but it's a very serious event, surely- the child is being dedicated to a faith, a whole set of rules and beliefs which they have spent months preparing for- years, if you take into account all the church services they've been to, the school assemblies, watching older children going through the same thing.

I am a complete heathen, but I manage to have respect for such an important event- it shocks me that people who actually subscribe to it themselves can act so dreadfully. Yet when DH and I decided to have a civil wedding ceremony, those who objected to our not having it in the church, were the ones who never go to church outside of a special occasion. It's because I respect their beliefs that I wouldn't dream of standing and making vows in a place of worship that I don't hold sacred, in front of someone else's God that I do not believe in.

Yeah another Irish poster here totally in agreement with the OP. I think some posters have missed the OP's central point which is not about squalling toddlers but about the fact that in Ireland many parents and relatives completely and totally take the piss when it comes to christening s, communions and confirmations. They get caught up in the materialistic shite and although they haven't set foot in Mass for years, swan in to get their DC put through their paces and reap all of the benefits (school places, the excuse for a party, cash and attention for the child) without having to do anything so boring as obey the rules of he church they're so eager to belong to...not.

It's hard to conceive of the extent of the hypocrisy unless you've grown up with it really.

I am no longer Catholic but agree that a bit of basic respect for religious ceremonies really shouldn't be that hard to muster.

Yup.And then they sit in judgement and yap like fuck when someone just is honest and doesn't bother with church at all, wouldn't you agree Greenstone?

I wouldn't mind their hypocrisy so much if they didn't extend it to my own choices, tbh.

On the same subject. In my village, the number of unmarried couples with kids has skyrocketed in recent years. I have absolutely no problem with this myself, but find it really odd that a couple can get DC 1,2 and 3 christened, through first communion, etc etc, without actually doing the marriage bit, which I hear is a bit important if you're a Catholic.

Yet again, when I inform the same people that my DC won't be christened, they act as though I've just shat on their grandma!

Sorry, O/T a bit!

Yanbu I went to my nieces last week and I couldn't believe the amount of older kids on phones or acting silly. My DC are 8, 6 and 5 months and managed to behave themselves. Although my baby did blow a few raspberries!

Yes I'd agree, Cabbages. At least you know you're not alone! I am lucky in that I've had no direct judginess to my face about civil ceremony/lack of christening for dd because dh's family aren't Catholic and mine probably too scared of my face to say anything! Have no doubt that people have passed comments but couldn't give a shit.
The priests go along with it because they are beleagured after the scandals and can't afford to be turning families away. Any that do dissent are given the cold shoulder so they can't win.

I actually feel a bit sorry for the priests. I'm not a fan of them in general, but it must be hard to be so strong in your faith that you become one, only to see your parishioners taking the piss out of the basics

Glad I came across this thread tonight, have a jam packed summer full of christenings before me and was dreading it already

I went along to our regular church when it happened to be a Christening. I ended up sat next to a pair of "guests", young adults who sniggered their way through the whole service. I managed to supress my pregnancy rage and resist kicking them in the shins as they sniggered through prayers about supporting the victims of a major natural disaster that was in the news. I don't care what their religious views are or aren't, but I found their disrespect for the atmosphere of the ceremony totally offensive. You can opt out of participation, and just sit quietly and respectfully.

YANBU

I'm a lapsed Catholic. I have issues with lots of aspects of the Church but if I'm there for a ceremony I behave myself, and I expect children to as well. And when I was a kid and dragged to Mass every Sunday I was expected to behave myself as well. Obviously my parents didn't expect me to pay attention to the sermon, but to generally stay still and read a book or eat raisins and not run around screaming like a small barbarian. If I did I got taken out quick smart. I went to a baptism ceremony and was amazed at the feral children galloping round the church mid-ceremony while their parents ignored them. Unbelievable.

Yanbu at all. Im not religious but would have respect for others and those taking part!
Op i really hope your niece was upset and is still very proud of herself

It's bloody rude and lack of respect.

Fine it's up to you if you see it as just a day out a pretty outfit etc, but there are still some who don't, who do see it as a religious rite.

I'm a lapsed Catholic (see though how I still capitalise it. . . ) OH is a practising Sikh, though he states he is a modern/ moderate Sikh..

None of thus matters when we go home and Ma asks us to accompany her to mass/ or we get invited to nephews/nieces communions; confirmations etc.

We behave, I find it boring, OH finds it fascinating, I suppress my yawns, he doesn't ask questions/chat through out.

It's basic manners

Remember them, manners.

Totally agree with the OP, and I'm as atheist as they come. On the ocassions I've been invited to other people's religious events (weddings, christenings etc) ,whilst I don't actively participate I remain silent and keep my kids quiet as well. Not because the ceremony means anything to me but just to show respect and support for the people involved. I wonder how some of these people would behave at a funeral - would they talk all through the service? Probably not - most people are able to be respectful at a funeral, so why not other religious ceremonies?

I love the idea that screaming babies should remain inside a church because they have a 'right to be there'.

The baby just wants to be in their loved ones arms surely, and beyond that cares not a jot if they are inside a church, outside a church, or round the back of McDonald's.

What benefit does a screaming kid get from remaining inside a church? None. It's the parents who think they have a right to place their own selfish wants over other people's.

There are posts on here comparing a church service to a theatre event or school nativity play.

there is no comparison, a church service is a family gathering in the house of God, families tend to have children in them, and God's family too.

it is pubic. If a child was singing a song they rehearsed out in the street, it is possible that there will be a disturbance, same in the open, public, inclusive house of God.

There is nothing to stop the child also singing her solo in a private setting later on in the day, but I do question whether a child who hasn't been taught that churches are open, public places is actually ready for communion?

Behaviour like that infuriates me.

I wasn't brought up in a denomination that has ceremonies like this and freely admit I know nothing of the intricacies of the ceremony. However I know enough to know it's important to some people, I'd be honoured if someone wanted me there and would have the manners not to chat, stand blocking people's view when everyone is sitting, try to control my children and step outside with them if I failed.