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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse to pay school fees having withdrawn my dc because..

146 replies

bluestrawhat · 15/05/2014 19:04

the person we were told would be the dcs' form teacher did not actually perform this role and instead left the class with a TA. This happened for 7 months without parents being informed and without the knowledge of the head teacher but with the knowledge of the deputy head. Mean time pastoral issues have been passed on by the supposed class teacher variously to other members of staff and TAs and there has been bullying which we think has not been dealt with adequately because the children are not clear who their form teacher actually is. Having tried to deal with these issues and received an apology from the head but not from the other teachers involved we decided to move schools and have not paid fees which the school is now pursuing. What is our position? TIA

OP posts:
YoureBeingASillyBilly · 15/05/2014 19:09

You didnt know for 7 months your child wasnt seeing their form teacher? Dont you talk!? Confused

WooWooOwl · 15/05/2014 19:14

YABU to not pay the fees.

You might be able to expect a discount, but if your child has been in their care and has received their teaching, then you owe them money for that. You can't just decide not to pay anything because you don't like one aspect of their provision, even if you're right not to like it.

meditrina · 15/05/2014 19:16

Check the contract. You need to have followed the grievance procedure to the letter and exhausted all avenues of redress.

What exchanges with the school have you had so far? Are they all recorded in writing?

It is (surprisingly) common for parents who simply wish to avoid their contractual obligation to give notice or pay fees in lieu to make allegations of substandard actions by the school. This is why all cases are vigorously contested by schools as a matter of routine.

That is why solid evidence that you acted correctly in exhausting the grievance procedure is so important.

Tinkerball · 15/05/2014 19:17

How did you not notice for 7 months???

Groovee · 15/05/2014 19:18

You would be better seeking legal advice.

Original poster
bluestrawhat · 15/05/2014 19:21

It's complicated. The school operates a secondary model at primary school i.e. different teachers for different subjects. The proper form teacher only took the register twice and the class was then supervised by the TA. The children didn't really know this wasn't ok so didn't report it at least not as a problem. We couldn't quite believe this was going on. The head teacher has acknowledged it was a problem and apologised.

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/05/2014 19:21

You can't just not pay. You need to check the terms of your contract. Whether or not you are entitled to a refund you should also raise a formal co.plaint.

Original poster
bluestrawhat · 15/05/2014 19:22

Everything recorded. Have used grievance procedure short of governors. At this point we felt it was causing too much stress and were concerned that the dts needed to be moved.

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Delphiniumsblue · 15/05/2014 19:24

I would get legal advice. YANBU but it might not be that easy. I am. It sure how it went unnoticed by everyone, including the Head, for 7 months!

BettyBotter · 15/05/2014 19:24

I'm wondering if it's like a restuarant. You can't actually eat the whole meal and then claim it was cold and not pay the bill.

I would have thought you can't send your child to school for 7 months and then claim you aren't happy with the teacher/ standards. Shock

It would seem reasonable (to me) only to withhold any fees from the point at which you made a fair complaint that was not resolved satisfactorily.

Original poster
bluestrawhat · 15/05/2014 19:24

Hmm... there IS clear evidence that the pastoral system and management system has failed. This would be impossible to deny. Can we not refuse to pay on the grounds that we felt there was no choice but to move the dts given we have no faith in the pastoral care and management of the school?

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Original poster
bluestrawhat · 15/05/2014 19:25

Happy to pay for the time they have been in school. Not happy to pay for a terms fees in lieue of notice given we felt we had no choice but to move dts.

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Original poster
bluestrawhat · 15/05/2014 19:26

We are paid up to the date the dts left. We did explain to head that the break down of trust was so serious we would consider moving school.

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WooWooOwl · 15/05/2014 19:27

I'd have thought it was fair to refuse to pay for the rest of the term after your dds have left, but not fair to refuse to pay for time that they were there.

I've no idea of the legal position though, only giving an opinion on what seems morally right to me.

Original poster
bluestrawhat · 15/05/2014 19:27

Betty we didn't realize the problems for 7 months. We hoped/expected the school was providing the service it had promised. It has become apparent this is not the case.

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GreenEyedGoblin · 15/05/2014 19:27

Secondary model?

What is a form teacher in your dc's school op? My form teacher in school was the person who took the register...we were with them from 8.50am to 9.05am when lessons began.

Is that the same in your school?

WooWooOwl · 15/05/2014 19:28

Xposted!

Original poster
bluestrawhat · 15/05/2014 19:28

WooWoo, that's also what I think is morally right. I don't see why we should have to pay for fees from the point the dts have left given our reasons for them leaving must be irrefutable.

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Original poster
bluestrawhat · 15/05/2014 19:29

Sort of GreenEyed. Also supposed to be the first point of contact for children and parents. The teacher has not performed this role.

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SpringItOn · 15/05/2014 19:31

Why is it a problem? The form teacher is usually just there to take the register,hand out any communications/keep the children informed of upcoming events etc.

AElfgifu · 15/05/2014 19:31

Why would a TA take the register less well than a teacher?

Hulababy · 15/05/2014 19:31

I am not surely legally how you stand tbh. Depends on their contract and what the wording says.

Though almost all independents, like free schools and academies, do use qualified teachers they legally do not have to. So the fact that they were not taught by a teacher with QTS may not mean that they have failed to provide your child with an adequate education.

On what grounds are you arguing the non payment?

Schools can and do take parents to court over such matters. It depends how far you want to pursue it. You may win at court, but you may equally loose too.

LIZS · 15/05/2014 19:31

so is it 2 lots of fees you are withholding ?

What is a form teacher in your dc's school op? My form teacher in school was the person who took the register...we were with them from 8.50am to 9.05am when lessons began. Exactly our experience. Presumably you had no pastoral issues otherwise you would have found out before 7 months had passed.

meditrina · 15/05/2014 19:32

If necessary, a court will decide if what the school has done is a sufficient breach, and their actions to remedy it inadequate.

On the face of it, though, I would say your chances do not look good. Firstly because this seems to hinge on the level if qualification of the person taking the register, and that looks pretty flimsy. Secondly because over 7 months there was ample time for you to have given proper notice (which you could have rescinded if you decided to stay).

And possibly thirdly if you did not exhaust all the grievance procedure before leaving. You have not for example mentioned attitude of and response from the governors.

Original poster
bluestrawhat · 15/05/2014 19:34

But the job of a form teacher is also to deal with potentially serious pastoral issues which has clearly not happened. The major problem as I see it is that parents were never informed there had been a change of role. Parents were still presenting concerns to the named form teacher but this teacher was not performing that role. The concerns were passed on and dealt with by various different staff or not at all. There was no response at all to some concerns. The head teacher has admitted the form teacher was at fault for abandoning her duties.

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