To refuse to pay school fees having withdrawn my dc because..

[bluestrawhat]

the person we were told would be the dcs' form teacher did not actually perform this role and instead left the class with a TA. This happened for 7 months without parents being informed and without the knowledge of the head teacher but with the knowledge of the deputy head. Mean time pastoral issues have been passed on by the supposed class teacher variously to other members of staff and TAs and there has been bullying which we think has not been dealt with adequately because the children are not clear who their form teacher actually is. Having tried to deal with these issues and received an apology from the head but not from the other teachers involved we decided to move schools and have not paid fees which the school is now pursuing. What is our position? TIA

I don't buy it. 7 months with the same adult (albeit a TA) cannot possibly mean that the children were not clear who their form tutor was, as specified in the OP. Children will figure out quickly enough that Mr X is the usual form teacher if Mr X is there every day, even if they were originally told that Mr Y would be dk

Hit send too soon.

Told that Mr Y would be doing the job.

OP is clutching at straws to try to get out if paying money she contractually owes.

If the issue is poor communication (who is responsible for what whilst the teacher is managed out) then it is lamentable but will not amount to good grounds to break the contract.

As there should be a clear chain of who you take an issue to if the form teacher cannot resolve it in timely fashion. OP will need to demonstrate that she followed that procedure and that it also failed. And all further iterations along the pastoral and grievance policies.

If I were you ,and I have been in a similar position but with one DC , I would try to come to an arrangement and see if they will accept a reduced amount which is what we did successfully . I would have loved to fight my corner but common sense said it was never going to be worth ending up in court .

'I started this year with one tutor group and moved to another because the school wanted stronger tutors with yr 11s. The parents of my original yr 9 group were not informed.'

This is a very different scenario.

Point is that the form teacher abandoned his duties without the Head's consent or knowledge for 7 months. The Head has agreed this was unacceptable. It is not the school's policy that the form teacher role is taken by a TA.

'OP is clutching at straws to try to get out if paying money she contractually owes.'

Er, no.

We do not see why we should pay for tuition we are not receiving given it is the school's fault (failure to provide adequate pastoral care or to deal with bullying) we are leaving.

There are wider concerns about the competence of managers at the school. The head didn't know who was supervising the form or that the form teacher he had appointed had absconded. The deputy DID know but didn't pass on the information.

The head acknowledges the situation was wrong. In the dts' file there is communication from the head to the deputy saying that reports must be completed by the form teacher. In fact, reports were written by the TA. Other issues were dealt with or not dealt with by other teachers.

"We do not see why we should pay for tuition we are not receiving given"

You mean arts of the timetable were abandoned, and you can prove this?

I'm not sure my head knows which member of staff tutors which group- not really her remit. One of the assistant heads deals with it. If a parent of my old group called her, specifically, to ask why I wasn't their child's tutor any more, she would have to pass it on, as she would probably have been unaware. Doesn't mean that the asst head deliberately kept it from her though.

I sympathise - it's hard when you're unhappy with your DC's school, but realistically, I'm not sure you've got much of a leg to stand on with regards the money.

'Children will figure out quickly enough that Mr X is the usual form teacher if Mr X is there every day, even if they were originally told that Mr Y would be dk'

Hmm.. young children often accept the situation they are in as the norm. This is what happened in this case. As there was no form teacher daily acting as a form teacher the children accepted they just wouldn't get these functions. WHen issues came up they went to different teachers or the TA. We think having one person with the whole picture as the poster says upthread or an investment in the class and individuals' pastoral care or being the first point of contact for parents and children has had a very damaging effect on the class.

After all, the above reasons are why most schools have a form teacher.

Form tutors don't actually DO much - you know that, right? I am a form tutor, but my actual job is to be a subject teacher. No one trains to be a form tutor. It's an add-on - like break duty.

No, meditrina. We paid up to the point the dts left. Then we stopped paying.

I do understand what some of you are saying - that in the eyes of the law, the school may not have acted illegally but we potentially have.

But I also agree with the posters who've said that the school may feel or could be made to feel that they have a moral obligation to let us off the fees given they have acknowledged the school's failings. And also if they don't see the moral argument it would be in their interest to avoid the embarrassment of the failings in pastoral care being made public.

They cannot argue there have not being failings since a member of staff has chosen not to fulfil his duties without the knowledge or consent and expressly against the wishes of the Head.

EvilTwins, I AM a form tutor and I disagree.

Like many things, you don't realize how important this role is until you haven't got one or have a crap one.

I have been in a situation of moving my children rapidly and refusing to pay severance fees, though I did pay fees til the end of term.

I called their bluff and said I was happy to go to court and put my side if the story. I had a particularly nasty debt collector/solicitor trying to intimidate me but I stuck to my guns and they gave up.

In your case I might try and reach a compromise with the school. It was horrible receiving threatening letters, phone calls and emails.

I'm a very good form tutor, but it's not my main job - it's an extra. Surely you know that if you ARE one. What else are you?

You're missing the point evil. The teacher defied the head by abandoning his duties. It would be like me deciding not to turn up at a parents' evening. Only this was for 7 months and the deputy head colluded.

1. If the head didn't know, the teacher was hardly defying him/her. The deputy knew.

1. It's an internal, staffing matter.

I didn't say it was the teacher's main job. Not the point. It's still an important part of the job. Marking year 7 books might be only 5% of my working time during a single week but it's still important and I can't choose not to do it just because I don't want to.

It is defying the head because it is defying the school's policy. It's odd you don't appreciate how serious this is when the head sacked the teacher in question.

If you mean the notice period, that is not a case of "paying for tuition you are not receiving" which is why I got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

You can remove your DC at any time, but you have to keep paying until the time when you are no longer specified in the contract. So yes, unless you can demonstrate (to a level that stands up in court) that the school had made a prior breach (and nothing you have posted here puts your case beyond doubt) then yes, you need to pay the exit penalty for not honouring the contractually required notice period.

And what would happen if you decided not to do break duty? If something happened during that break the school could be sued for negligence. This has happened in a recent case. A teacher left the playground for less than 5 minutes, a boy hit his head and died. The school was sued for negligence.

I get that meditrina. But I am hopeful that given the school has acknowledge failings and might want to avoid these becoming public they will back down.

If it did go to court given everything we have documented there might be enough to say they have breached their contract.

Unless it is a very small school and people are leaving in droves I doubt they will worry about a bit of bad publicity from one or two parents , try to negotiate .

I still think it's an internal issue. Sounds like the head has dealt with it if the teacher has been sacked. Though "asked to leave at the end of the year" isn't quite the same as marched off the premises immediately.

If the memberv f staff on who you both pin these failings is gone, then the school will say it was all very regrettable but it's dealt with. They are not running a reputational risk.