16 Kids and Counting

[Shinyfly]

So I've just watched this (recorded last night). AIBU to think that both of these couples just have stopped at one or two?

These were (just a couple) of the red flags for me.

1. The first family had 11 kids (number 12 made an appearance at the end of the programme). All of their children were home schooled and the only time they were permitted to mix with other children was once a week at boys/girls brigade. Mum Tania has a three year plan to have them living in the country and even more isolated from society very soon.

1. The second family were completely devoid of any rules/routines/boundaries, the house was complete chaos with children sleeping in their clothes and the older children being made to supervise the younger ones homework. Dad's clothes were always filthy.

Bth families seemed intent on having more children.

www.largerfamilylife.com/2012/01/18/glad-thats-over-the-truth-about-15-kids-and-counting/

One of the Radfords daughters is pregnant with her 2nd already so I can guess where her life is heading.

I think personally each to their own but am sure I saw (last year?) one of the Radford kids saying that "they wouldn't be doing this" - eg having so many kids. very telling.

The radfords do not claim tax credits I would think that there was also now a question over them even getting any child benefit due to the income threashold. The 17th pregnancy resulted in a miscarriage.

The home educating family do have some children in college and the children are not isolated and nor was that her reason for deciding on HE she also funds and uses qualified external help with HE.

I think personally each to their own but am sure I saw (last year?) one of the Radford kids saying that "they wouldn't be doing this" - eg having so many kids. very telling.

Lots of people say they won't do what their parents did...

Billy - this one if I recall correctly seemed quite clear and tired of the tiredness of it all!

I'm sure that it must be frustrating for any family (or individual) to be portrayed on TV in such a way as the show only lets you see a tiny portion of what actually happened. I read the link provided above and it does provide a more balanced explanation of what happens in that family in terms of the HE and the socialisation.

There were still several comments of the mother and of one of the older children though (on the show) along the lines of "I don't really need anyone else, we are totally self sufficient, I only see my friends very occasionally". Personally I don't think that's a healthy outlook but there you go, there are probably many less sociable people from smaller families who don't like to go out and meet up with friends.

I think, aside from worrying about the amount of attention each child would get and the lack of peace available to any of the members of the family, I would be most worried about something happening to me as the mother of such a huge family. As someone who developed health problems out of the blue in middle age when Dd was still young the thought of potentially being disabled or even leaving my child was bad enough. What on earth would you do if you were unable to care for that many children? Who would take over?

NeedsA.....Sue is expecting again, she is due around the time her daughter is due I follow her on FB

That must be pleasing for her after her sad loss last year

I read very recently that Mrs.Radford (can't remember her first name) miscarried her 17th around September last year, but that she is pregnant again. Can't remember where I read it though, So I may be wrong.

Cross post.

I worry about her pelvic floor! Seriously though, what must 16 pregnancies do to your body! My pelvic floor is dodgy and I have only had 2 kids!

Re the Duggars - a side hug? Well there you go, never knew it was an actual 'thing'

What makes a big family and at what stage is it actually about the parents needs? 5 children? 8?

I am sure I remember them saying that the radford's income from the bakery was around 40 grand a year so they would still be entitled to cb?

I know a family with 13 dcs-they are very nice but the women clearly has issues as they wanted more but can't have any due to her age. I think they were even considering ivf at one point! Even her own parents said they wished they would stop.They love the attention they get though and have appeared on tv/radio etc.

I know a few kids who are homeschooled and they are thriving, stimulated, socialising, creative etc. most home schooled kids actually achieve higher grades then their fellow students in main stream. Homeschooling is very social.

That could have been after tax or very very approximate but they have always been very open about not claiming means tested or none universal benefits

My experience of HE kids has been the opposite Loverofcheese with one exception (but he was bored to death as a child and now feels as if he has to work like a trojan to make up for how little he was encouraged to do then!). Either kids who did barely anything at all and ran riot or children who were pulled out for religious reasons and ended up having a very isolated existence. I don't think school is perfect, in fact sometimes it can be very poor indeed but I don't think HE is the answer for most children.

Sorry, I slighty regret that last sweeping statement! I actually really do understand parents wanting to HE. I've felt tempted to do things differently a few times since Dd has been at school. I strongly dissaprove of SATs pressure and there have been one or two grim teachers. However, Dd is a highly sociable child and I think it's really great that she gets to mix with all kinds of children on a day to day basis not just a small group of people that are very similar to her.

Lilac, you are talking about either one type of HE (one i personally think should be considered to be cme but each to their own) or children missing education what you are not talking about is structured teaching HE, HE is not suitable for all children nor is it suitable for all parents.

But a surprisingly high amount do exams (some LA's will even help you arrange it and not get weirded out when you have 11yo's sitting gcse's ) and the ones who do sit them tend to do very well indeed.

It would be quite unusual to isolate a HE child, socialisation is very much encouraged by every single reputable HE service, families who HE receive some very good discounts at many child focused attractions and venues around the country, and they see the same health professionals and other people that schooled children see the only exception being actual school teachers.

The HE family being talked about on this thread do not appear to be HEing in order to isolate and believe they were misrepresented by the program

I am pretty sure the Radford's must claim TC/CB, how could they afford all that otherwise? The cut off threshold for that many kids will be far far higher for that many children than average size family. Not judging them for it but it seems obvious that they must get a lot to afford it all.

They seem a nice family and I think big families are great, I have 5 myself. Having lost 4 babies, 2 stillborn, in a way I would love to have more as am so grateful for them, they're my whole life and I loved pregnancy etc. But I don't see how we would afford any more (similar salary to Radfords) and we are already on a tight budget. Also it is difficult enough giving each attention etc and helping them with uni and all the costs of older kids is difficult the more you have. For me it would be selfish if I had anymore but some people can cope much better or have more money/resources.

Thanks needasock, that is really interesting. I know there are probably loads of people doing HE really successfully. As I said I can see the appeal in alot of ways. How do you prevent your children only mixing with the same small group of other HE kids in your area though? I don't mean you personally,I mean in general? School can be incredibly annoying I know but I don't know how else you would get your child to meet up with kids from all walks of life as Dd does at her school. Genuine question.

The thing to remember is that families from all walks of life also HE and some groups will arrange very large meet ups all around the country then you have exactly the same things that schooled children have scouts aor cadets gymnastics dance drama all sorts of clubs that schooled children use as well as HE ones.

There is a high % of social services referrals regarding HE kids often just because they are HE as many people misunderstand (and often LA's will use it as a threat if you try and force them to act within the law)it but very low further action/intervention rates and often the first thing children's services are interested in is the level of social contact the children have and contact they have with others,it is my experience that most HE families will interact with the wider comunity and utilise clubs and facilities often more than schooled children do purely because of fears that people think they are isolating child abusers.

Re the tax credits thing. They say they do not claim means tested none universal benefits. I have no reason to believe they are lying and I can well believe people who would be eligible to claim them may choose not to out of pride or principle, not claiming benefits out of pride is not just limited to poverty stricken pensioners (according to age uk a huge problem) nor is it limited to rich people who refused to claim CB when they could or people who don't claim jsa. I come into contact with loads of families who refuse to claim tax credits because they are so frightened of the risk of TC error causing over payments it's really not unusual.

I have no idea what aor cadets is lets pretend it says air

It always seems to me like those massive families are like children's homes but with illegal ratios. The children must feel like part of a production line

I agree with a PP cut off CB after 3. That is a familys contribution. Im not sure we should be encouraging people to have kids unless they wsnt them for other reasons than financial
There would be very little cost to a family thst already have lots anyway. Boy and girl clothes of all sizes, shoes, all the furniture.
It is nowhere near the cost of the first.
Also food when you are cooking for so many.
I saw one where the mother never washes socks....well she has way too m
Much money
I can see the adv of HE over state school, not mixing with some kids who will lead yours astray.
But there could be no way the mother could educate them much between having so many kids. They filmed her when she didnt have a newborn. Yes she has a lot of experience but most babies need feeding every few hours and that must distract the class.
Also the only way to have so many is really to not bf, so not attempting to give 'best start in life'
I wonder if anyone nowadays could manage that many kids while bf