16 Kids and Counting

[Shinyfly]

So I've just watched this (recorded last night). AIBU to think that both of these couples just have stopped at one or two?

These were (just a couple) of the red flags for me.

1. The first family had 11 kids (number 12 made an appearance at the end of the programme). All of their children were home schooled and the only time they were permitted to mix with other children was once a week at boys/girls brigade. Mum Tania has a three year plan to have them living in the country and even more isolated from society very soon.

1. The second family were completely devoid of any rules/routines/boundaries, the house was complete chaos with children sleeping in their clothes and the older children being made to supervise the younger ones homework. Dad's clothes were always filthy.

Bth families seemed intent on having more children.

I don't bother to correct people who say 'home school' (unless they're claiming to have worked for an EHE dept then I don't expect it) even my husband calls it homeschooling.
But other views like people not being 'proper' home educators if they follow the NC and have structure. And so on.
Am wracking my brains to think of who it could be now.

Yes, in 'real life' they're usually lovely. And HE being such a tiny community we (I think) tend to stick together and try very hard to tolerate differences and get along, being on the same side as it were. Useful when dealing with LAs behaving unlawfully and so on.

I bought one of those card Never used it!

I really, really do not see the issue with "homeschooling". I'm sorry, I don't. And I think its ridiculous to claim some people are "proper" homeschoolers and some not. I've learnt two things on my travels into HE land. First, there is a big, big gaps between what the blogs say and the reality. (there's even a gap between what people say on their blogs and how they are with their kids at the HE group). Second, HErs aren't nearly as rigid in their labels as they might claim. I know unschoolers who shout and scream way more than me (achievement that ) and Steiner parents whose kids are glued to ipads. Kids are basically kids and parents are basically parents .

Personally, as someone whose kids are likely to go back in the horrible scary impersonal system , I adore the NC. I love that its all laid out for me, that I can pick up three workbooks in WH Smiths and get their bookwork done in two hours in the morning, then pop off to look at some rocks and do a bit of pond dipping in the afternoon. My kids like knowing that they are keeping pace with their peers.

esberj-aren't there several cards? The guru whose name we are not saying, another pretty expensive card that caused controversy, some id cards being issued by another group...

I can't speak about the LEA because I only have experience of two (kind of three, but the third not as an active HEr). I've had a positive experience in two different LEAs, one of which had a reputation for being "difficult", by simply picking up the phone, asking what they wanted and being courteous. Yes they didn't have perfect knowledge of HE law, but I didn't really expect them to. I politely pointed out any mistakes they made, and they were professional about it. That's just my experience, I don't mean to dismiss anyone's bad experiences but I know I was pretty worried about contacting the LEA initially after too much time on facebook, and I really need not have been. I do have legal training and I am confident about talking to people like council officials-I am willing to accept that that helps. But I do notice that when I share these positive experiences, no one seems interested. All people seem to want to do is talk about how bad the LEA is, and I think that that IS creating a culture of fear.

I have a bit of experience of the reply group, its a wonder they get the time to do anything what with all the snooping on people and screen shots of different conversations that go on, very strange all of it.

I do try and steer anybody who asks me to some of the more relaxed less argumentative groups but it is becoming quite difficult to avoid the more vocal ones.

I've always been quite fond of the NC as well

Culture of fear, I quite agree.

Honestly, I'm genuinely lolling at this. I didn't realise that there was actually a group that argued the toss over the HS / HE thing! It just seemed like something that people had been criticsed for lately, eg on here, and something that is SUCH a petty non-thing (I mean, way to build bridges with non-HErs, eh?) .

I can't believe that there is a group seriously doing this!

The Right to Reply group-I have friends who are in it and I've seen the posts (oh the fun we sometimes have passing ipads back and forth at HE meetings...that's what HErs REALLY get up to!). Its basically a fight club? I dunno, that's not my style at all, but I suppose if you're that way inclined and can keep it on there then that's your choice. How on earth a small community which is widely regarded by the rest of the population as a bunch of freaks and weirdos is managing to generate a fight club I have no idea and I maintain that they need to take up knitting but, yk. I'll spend my time doing the NC with my kids and trying to earn an honest wage and I'll leave them to it :-)

Yes, there are several cards I think. Mine is one of the most recent (I think). I don't have the expensive one, I'm pleased to say, the one that seemed to cause all the fuss.

I intend to send one of my children to school, somewhere around mid-late secondary as I think it might be beneficial to her. Though I've kept that to myself so far.

I have to be honest, the constant internet fighting and one-up-person-ship leaves me really depressed about this community. I like my HE friends but I don't like the politics and I don't like the necessity of constantly dodging politics.

It really seems like some parents leave the school gates and then kind of cast around for a substitute Queen Bee to cling to, and another group to be "in" with.

It doesn't make me confident about HE as a choice, because I look around and think, Christ, this is how my kids' friends parents behave?

That's why I have bugger all to do with any other HErs unless I've known them as friends already.

I know we diverted a bit today but today's mirror

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sue-radford-pregnant-mum-uks-3585591

Confirms the family recieve no state benefits

So are you calling her a liar?

Surely "the family are self sufficient and do not receive any state benefits" means just that unless of course you are calling her a liar

I actually really like this family, but I am totally shocked at Sue's appearance. She usually really looks after herself, so the two inch grey roots actually have me worried about her!

Well she is pregnant. Maybe she's avoiding using stuff on her hair or something? Maybe she's decided to grow out the grey?

I think, given she has 16 kids, is pregnant, and works, she looks bloody amazing.

I don't know if its as simple as calling her a liar. People don't always include child benefit.

I'm well out of date with the benefits system, but it seems to me that if they have a reasonable enough wage to buy a 10 bedroom house they could easily not qualify for child benefit or tax credits. I don't know exactly how they work-do they take the number of kids into account when determining the cut off?

The kids do use school and so the taxpayer is paying for that, plus whatever NHS care the kids need.

But honestly, that's not something I can get especially worked up about. I don't use schools right now and I pay for them as a taxpayer. I want her kids to get a good education because its in my interests as a citizen that kids get a good education.

As said above, I have concerns about how well a family can provide an education for their kids in a family of this size and I do think its reasonable to enquire as to specific educational provision in that case. Quiverfull families, for example, would often be educating this size family with just the mother as teacher, possibly helped by the older girls (at the expense of their own further education). That's a problem, IMO. And one that would be resolved by, say, in the situation above, having two adults at home doing the education.

But the mere fact that they are producing a lot of educated future taxpayers...well meh, really. I'm more concerned that we're paying to educate a lot of kids quite badly than that there are some families who are doing what looks to be a good job of educating more kids than the average.

They could easily earn 50 000 (that wouldn't go far with 16 children now would it) which would make them ineligible for child benefit, number of children aren't taken into account.

I think it would be a tough job to home ed all the children. But why is it deemed suitable for them all I wonder. I just wonder that the individual child's educational needs haven't been taken into consideration and they've all had home ed applied in a blanket way as it suits the family as a whole.

I'm very out of date with tax credits. It used to be that the maximum earning, where you were ineligible for tax credit was 50-70 K, depending on how many children you had (and then that was minimal. Eight years ago we had basic of 50K and were entitled to £3.00 per month or something silly, with five children).

fabricassimo-its not the baker's family homeschooling, is it?

I agree with you in principle though about deciding for each child whether homeschooling is the best thing for them. I don't think a kid should be long term homeschooled just because they happen to have a lot of siblings. I think that's the wrong way around to think really.

I think you might be right. Ooops! 10-12 or so though and I think the decision should be made on a child-by-child basis. Home schooling/education not being right for every child, same as school not being right for every child.

Also wondering what happens if the children from both school and non-school families want to pursue an activity or hobby, or were particularly talented at something. Surely it couldn't be afforded, in terms of both time and money.

It would be interesting to see how they do at school too what with as a pp said there being so little time per kid to help with reading (although i guess that stage doesnt last forever so would be only a few kids each year

The vast majority of parents who use schools use them for all their children,its a matter of fact thing when they get to 4/5 nobody bats an eyelid when that automaticlly happens

You're right, most probably do. I would apply the same to them. Though perhaps conditions and situation need to be just right to home educate, and not as 'easy' (using this word carefully!) as sending to school. The number of people who would love to home school but can't because, and for example, they can't afford to live on one wage, provide resources, think they lack knowledge, confidence, etc etc

er...the vast majority of parents use schools, which is why they use them for all their kids.

I certainly know children from larger families who have been individually HE'd because it was the right thing for them. I also know larger families who have rolled with it where one or two kids wanted to try school or where school seemed to be the right option.

I don't think having a larger family gets you off the hook in terms of thinking through each child's needs. That's a reason not to have a larger family, IMO.

What I was meaning was that very few people even question if school is the right place (school as a thing not each different school) for every child they have.

So it's no different to a family deciding that all children will be HE just as most families decide all children will go to school.

Why does the choice only get ripped apart or expectations of it being totally right for each child when very few people would even question a choice to use schools even if school is not right for the child attending.