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Original poster

To feel uncomfortable - additional parking permit

128 replies

ParkingPermitWoes · 13/05/2014 14:07

Name changed for this and it could out me!

DBIL is in the process of buying a campervan and has said that we can use it whenever we want to. Lovely, except that I dont think well use it a huge amount as we're not great campers (and we've just had a new baby) but great to have the offer there of course.

DBIL came over last night and talk turns to where it will be kept. It transpires that he is looking at keeping it in storage for around four months of the year in storage and then outside our house for the rest of the year (including during summer time).

There are practical reasons why he can't keep it outside his place and he lives about 30 minutes from us.

It's been stressed that he would pay for all the running costs and that we wouldnt have to contribute at all, just petrol etc when we used it. We are in the middle of town so have parking restrictions and so it would need a permit. It was casually thrown in that this would mean that it needed to be registered in our names. If we do that then we have to be the registered owners and then the insurance, MOT, tax etc will all be in our names. I dont really want to do that to be honest if he has an accident in it then while we wont lose our no-claims bonus if I'm right then I think our premiums could be affected?

Also, I just dont want to be responsible for another vehicle and it will be our fault if its not taxed or insured etc. I suspect DBIL is just as disorganised as my DP when it comes to paperwork so yet another thing for me to be responsible for and worry about.

I feel really uncomfortable with it. But I dont know though whether Im being unfair and should just go ahead with it or say no. If we say no then for other reasons I don't want to go into it will be difficult for him to get it and keep it.

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
Original poster
ParkingPermitWoes · 14/05/2014 10:01

Morethan - while I'm not happy with it why would it be fraud? The campervan would be in my DP's name, insurance in his name and we would tell the insurance company that DBIL would be the main driver? I'm not saying you're wrong but just trying to understand why it would be fraud?

Someone above said that the owner of a parking permit also need sot be the main driver on an insurance policy with some councils. That's a possibilit here I guess. If DB has to be the main driver then obviously DP can't do it.

Just to be clear - still don't want to do it but I want to be clear what would be fraudulent about it?

The reason I'm still thinking about it is that it's not just my decision is it? Ok, if it's expected that everything falls to me then yes clearly it's my decision. But my DP does have a say in this too if he's happy to take on all the responsibility. So, just trying to be fair I guess (with the arguments being in my favour so that DP agrees with me...!!)

OP posts:
gobbynorthernbird · 14/05/2014 10:01

With the parking/neighbour situation, surely your neighbours don't mind the current camper being on the road because it belongs to a resident? They may not feel the same about a non-residents vehicle.

Original poster
ParkingPermitWoes · 14/05/2014 10:03

Shewwhowines - yes that is my main worry. DP says it's fine, we can park it at the end of the street where there are no houses so it won't be outside someone else's house. But it is still taking up a space and sometimes parking is tight.

We get on with all our neighbours and it's a really friendly street so the last thing I want to do is upset that. His argument is that there is already another campervan on the street and people don't mind about that one so it will be fine. Not sure I agree tbh.

OP posts:
Original poster
ParkingPermitWoes · 14/05/2014 10:06

Gobbynorthenbird, yes that's a point. Although I suppose they would think that we own it anyway (which we would - ha!). I agree with you though and all the other posters on the parking front.

Seriously though, there are probably about 3 weekends in a year where it would be a glorious thing to take a campervan away for a weekend. These things cost a fortune I think - really don't understand it.

OP posts:
Burren · 14/05/2014 10:11

Frankly, my neighbours would be hopping mad if, on a street where parking can be tight, another household decided to keep a camper van belonging to a non-resident for months at a time. I think your husband is underestimating the difference between a resident's campervan and a total stranger's.

If your BIL can't fund garage fees or park it himself, then he doesn't get to buy it.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 14/05/2014 10:13

His family are not "horrible" as someone above suggested.

I'll be having chats with DP this evening. I do not think this is going to go down too well. Can just hear the responses now from MIL...I'm being unfair, unreasonable, selfish etc...

Which is it? Your MIL is a bully and manipulative if things don't go her way. She meddles in the affairs of her grown up children. She and her menchildren DSes are making YOU run around finding out about paperwork, legalities and logistics for a fun bus that none of you own atm and that YOU never will. AND you have just had a baby.

That's 'horrible' in my opinion. I hope you realise that soon.

colleysmill · 14/05/2014 10:18

Dh is always tinkering with our campervan (there's is always something to do) so is bil planning to do that roadside?

Original poster
ParkingPermitWoes · 14/05/2014 10:21

Wooa, Tondelayo,

I've made it clear that I am not going to running around or sort out the paperwork etc. My comments about MIL were probably unfair - but I suspect they will struggle to understand why we won't do it if we just say "no". While I appreciate that "no" is a complete sentence sometimes there is no harm in explaining WHY it doesn't work for us or why we don't want to do it. I think DP is swayed by the romantic notion of going away in a campervan on a weekend and hasn't thought about the practicalities. Anyway, he'll have to deal with all of those as I certainly won't.

They are a close family and do help each other out a lot and are certainly not "horrible".

OP posts:
foolishpeach · 14/05/2014 10:22

I'd be pretty fucked off if someone started storing a random campervan which didn't belong to them on our street. Parking is very tight, and whilst I never expect to be able to park outside my house, I would like to be able to park on the street which I live on.

This plan is selfish and ridiculous.

Plus, everything that Tondelayo said.

gobbynorthernbird · 14/05/2014 11:03

I doubt it would take your neighbours long to figure out it wasn't your camper and complain to the council.

Sparklingbrook · 14/05/2014 11:06

I believe that you have to rev the engine regularly if the campervan isn't moving. The neighbours will LOVE that. And while you are sat in it they can come and have a word with you about the parking situation.....

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 14/05/2014 12:02

OP - you say:

I've made it clear that I am not going to running around or sort out the paperwork etc.

But throughout this thread you've said:

DBIL is just as disorganised as my DP when it comes to paperwork so yet another thing for me to be responsible for and worry about.

parking fines, speeding tickets, correspondence with DVLR etc - all of which would fall to me

I suspect DP doesn't really care about the practicalities of it

The final say will be whether it will impact our current insurance so will need to do some work there.

You ARE running around doing all the work for them, regardless of how much you tell your DP it's down to him and it will be in his name. You've phoned the council, are checking the insurance and are on an internet forum going into detail about the legalities. It will be YOU who ends up doing this.

Sorry but you seem very capable and lovely and your DP's family are taking the piss. My father's family is like this 'we help each other' - ie "we help ourselves and take advantage of the kindness, politeness and generosity of other people"

Sorry I know it's not a nice thing to hear.

saintlyjimjams · 14/05/2014 12:04

No, just no. Absolutely not. (& I'd LOVE free access to a campervan)

There must be storage near him. We looked at buying a camper and there was quite a good choice of storage places.

Original poster
ParkingPermitWoes · 14/05/2014 12:18

Tondelayo - yes you're right I said all of that yesterday and I have been running around looking at how it affects us/me.

Having looked into it I am now clear that I don't want to be part of it and have said though that IF they go ahead then I'm not doing anything on this. To be honest I have been checking the council's website and will check with insurers as I'm keen on DP not taking it on either. I don't want to force him to say "no" and think that if he had definite information proving that it will affect our insurance or the council requires the main driver to be the permit holder then it's easier to get him to see it from my point of view.

I have now been told by DP that there are other options and that I'm stressing over nothing. Part of me thinks that's just him sweeping it under the carpet until its been bought and there's no other option...but I have a tendancy to over think these things.

So, the final shot from me is that I want nothing to do with it and they can sort it out between themselves.

Thanks everyone, the replies have been really helpful and have made me think about this and how his family treat us/expect us to behave. All very useful.

OP posts:
TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 14/05/2014 12:24

Sorry OP if I've been harsh Flowers - it's sometimes very difficult to be a kind and conscientious person and be able to say no at the same time.

Your BIL is a grown man who can afford to pay cash for a campervan (not cheap) - he will work it out.

Original poster
ParkingPermitWoes · 14/05/2014 12:29

No, you haven't been (too) harsh! I agree, this is BIL's issue to sort out and as long as he's clear when he buys it that it's not a given that he can park it on our road, then it's his look out.

OP posts:
BOFster · 14/05/2014 12:31

Do you not qualify for an additional Visitor's Permit under your parking scheme?

squirrel996 · 14/05/2014 12:32

storage for caravans/campervans etc is really cheap, and there are loads of them. Just google and I bet you will find one really easily. And it makes the insurance cheaper too because they normally have really good security.

ImperfectTense · 14/05/2014 12:35

Where I live (a London Borough) people have been prosecuted for allowing someone else to use a permit in their name. Don't do it!

Original poster
ParkingPermitWoes · 14/05/2014 12:48

We qualify for daily vouchers but they are very expensive and so not feesible.

DP wouldn't be allowing someone else to use a permit in their name though - the campervan would belong to him (legally although not benefically)? Obviously worth DP and DBIL checking with the council though to make sure that it's ok.

OP posts:
TerribleMother · 14/05/2014 13:02

Some of the replies on the thread are infuriating - if done correctly, it is NOT fraud! (Not that I'm suggesting it's a good idea, that's a different discussion). But it is perfectly legal for a vehicle to be owned and insured by one person, with a completely different person named as the main driver. This is not illegal. What is fraudulent, is for a vehicle to be owned and insured by one person claiming to be the main driver, when in fact, someone else is the main driver of the car. This is usually done by parents to try to lower the premium of a teenage son/daughter, and is known as fronting. This is completely different to what the op's dh is considering doing.

Worriedkat · 14/05/2014 13:08

Part of the cost of owning a camper van or caravan is to factor in the cost of storage, insurances etc. Not just buy the thing with cash and then expect an unrelated uninterested party to sort all the additional practicalities.

Sod fair. They're hardly being fair to you and your neighbours are they. Who needs this shit when you've got a new baby. Personally I would be putting my foot down, rather than feel resentment every time I saw the van parked there untouched and going rusty once the novelty has worn off.

BitterOldOtter · 14/05/2014 14:58

On the other hand we have another house in another city and there you have to be on the Council Tax register and prove your car is your own and registered to that address.

My parking permit is like this too - I have to prove that I live at the house, that I own the car and that the car is kept at the house. This involves taking a heap of documents (and they are very specific about what they will accept to prove each thing) to the Council every year at renewal time. This is why I agree with others that in the OP's position, even if I wanted to, there is no way I'd be getting an additional permit for someone else.

TerribleMother · 14/05/2014 21:05

But the op's DH is planning to own, insure and keep the vehicle as his own, at his own address, just with the bil named as main driver - again, not breaking any rules over the parking permit. He wouldn't be getting a permit 'for someone else'.

caroldecker · 14/05/2014 21:12

terrible many councils insist the permit holder is also the main driver, specifically to avoid these situations and prevent non-residents having parking permits.

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