to aak UKIP supporters if you would have voted for the Nazis too?

[wigglylines]

The brilliant Michael Rosen on UKIP.

l“I sometimes fear that people might think that fascism arrives in fancy dress worn by grotesques and monsters as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis. Fascism arrives as your friend. It will restore your honour, make you feel proud, protect your house, give you a job, clean up the neighbourhood, remind you of how great you once were, clear out the venal and the corrupt, remove anything you feel is unlike you…It doesn’t walk in saying, “Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution.”

Also I don't understand the shrieking.

UKIP win the Euro election. So what? They will have a dozen MPs sitting alongside hundreds of other fat cat wastes of space in Europe. The BNP won a few seats last time. It doesn't turn us into the Third Reich.

UKIP do attract some pretty nasty people, but so do the Tories

So do every bloody party FFS.

Exactly. Claiming that UKIP voters are akin to Nazi sympathisers is not just untrue, it's ridiculous.

Horrible power crazed fuckers in every party IMO.
I mean how could Clegg claim to be unaware of the rumours about Cyril Smith? Even I had heard them.
And what about Tony 'Charles Lynton' Blair - go on google his full name.
the whole lot of them are evil and debauched fuckers

I always want to ask people who want to abolish the HRA because it's nothing but a criminals' charter how they reconcile that belief with a number of very well-publicised civil cases relying on it - e.g.:

Natalie Eweida (who succeeded in a claim against BA for not being allowed to wear a cross in public)
Tony Nicklinson and Paul Lamb: right to die cases currently ongoing and relying heavily on HRA arguments
The new Hillsborough inquests which were brought about following a successful argument based on Article 2 of the EHRC
Stephen Lawrence: judicial review based on the HRA bringing about trial and conviction of his murderers
The case brought by families of three soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan which resulted in a finding that the MoD have a duty of care to soldiers and an Article 2 right to life
Fiona Pilkington: successful HRA based claim against the police for not doing enough to protect her and her disabled daughter from years of disability related abuse
Bedroom tax cases

And UKIP want to bring all those pesky challenges to an end.

Labour Criminals

SEX:

Labour Councillor (Newton Aycliffe/Durham – In Tony Blair's Sedgefield constituency), Martyn Locklin – Convicted on 8 counts of rape and indecent assault on teenage boys in 2001, and jailed for 15 years (reduced to 12 on appeal). Locklin was a top local Party bigwig on first-name terms with Tony Blair, after escorting the PM during visits to his constituency on several occasions. The judge also put the Labour rapist on the sex offender’s register for life, telling him: “You will be watched for the rest of your days. You need to be”. archive.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/2002/4/3/140310.html

Labour Councillor (Westlands/Worcestershire), Keith Rogers – Convicted, fined, and placed on the sex offender’s register in 2003, after downloading over 2,000 hardcore child porn photos on his computer. archive.worcesternews.co.uk/2003/10/1/168589.html

Labour Councillor (Dagenham/London), Terry Power – Forced to resign in 1999 after being arrested and charged with sex attacks on teenage boys. Details of trial and conviction to follow.

Labour Parliamentary candidate (Cheadle/Cheshire), Paul Diggert – Subject of a 2002 police investigation into the alleged procurement of underage girls for sexual purposes via internet chatrooms. According to the Sunday Mirror (3/11/02), Diggert had admitted to having four underage girls that he was grooming for sex. In 2004 Diggert was convicted of making and distributing indecent pictures of children.
Prominent Kent Labour Party activist Mark Tann (who has met Tony & Cherie at Party functions) – Convicted and jailed for 15 years in 2002 for sexually assaulting a girl of 9, and raping a 4-year old girl on 2 separate occasions. And no, that’s not a miss-print. She was FOUR YEARS OLD. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2669865.stm

Just a few labour people here couldnt be bothered to copy whole list.

Or the Camphill villages...? Hardly chilling echoes of 1930s Germany.

The massive difference there is that people have a choice, which doesn't seem to be what UKIP are advocating. Further, if anyone thinks UKIP are planning to spend money to provide anything equivalent to Camphill, dream on.

Every time I see a UKIP poster I have to resist the urge to find the nearest DIY store, get a tin of gloss paint and deface it.

And I still think this is a bloody stupid statement.

Several years ago my mother - who is not racist or disablist or homophobic - was going to vote for UKIP. Because she didn't like what the European arrangement she'd voted for in the early 1970s had become. She doesn't want a European super state. Which I think is a perfectly valid position to take.

She would never vote for them now - I told her about their ugly side. But I'd bet there's loads of UKIP voters out there who are just like my Mum. And to suggest that they're all closet Nazi's is just rubbish.

Icimoi - perhaps what we need is not an abolishment per se, but a very much tighter set of rules governing what a right to a family life etc means in reality.

UKIP win the Euro election. So what? They will have a dozen MPs sitting alongside hundreds of other fat cat wastes of space in Europe.

So we will have no effective say in the EU Parliament, that is so what. Because UKIP MEPs historically have no interest in actually doing their jobs there, y'know, what they get paid for.

And re your point about Camphill - no, I am under no illusion that they're planning to spend that sort of money, but neither do I accept that UKIP plans to round up disabled people and put them in camps reminiscent of 1930s Germany as was suggested upthread.

Ask not what your MEP can do for you, but what you can do for your MEP....

I don't even know who mine is, let alone know what they do for me or the area I live in. Brussels is an unregulated gravy train - perhaps rather than concentrating on UKIP we should concentrating on making sure we are getting value for money from the MEPs and the bottomless money pit that is Brussels.

Natalie Eweida was decided at the ECHR. Nothing to do with the HRA.

I don't see why we need the courts to give people a right to die. That seems like Parliament's role.

The Hillsborough Inquest followed the Hillsborough Independent Panel's report, which was instituted by the government. Not the HRA.

The Stephen Lawrence conviction was based on the Criminal Justice Act 2003. Not the HRA. www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2011/1256.html

Fiona Pilkington's death and the repercussions of that are due to the media + IPCC. The police settled out of court with the family. No HRA claim made it to court.

That's crap Icimoi, most of our MEPs will NOT be from UKIP. We have 69 MEPs. UKIP might get 25 of those.

I don't think the OP is suggesting that UKIP voters are closet Nazis. FatalCabbage's post summed it up well - more that extremist parties are very good at presenting a shiney image, and tapping into people's concerns, and that it's only when you dig deeper you find out what they really stand for. Also - things change. When the Nazis were elected in 1933 they didn't have a policy of invading other countries (except those with German majorities) or killing Jews - those things grew along the way because of decisions they made, fixations they had, and circumstances which evolved.

They are clearly a fascist party and those of us outside the UK are watching in unadulterated horror.

Um, you know that Mein Kampf was published in 1925? And it's very clearly and unambiguously antisemitic.

Fucking hell.

RabbitFromAHat

How are they facist?

Their the most libertarian out all the major parties.

Comparing ukip with the Nazi party? FFS

Not sure I am a UKIP voter but haven't made up my mind yet. however, would you vote for Labour who led us in to war on spurious claims, or the libdems who broke their promise on tuition fees. or the tories with Michael Gove wrecking education. the big problem and the reason ukip are gaining votes is that all of the 3 main parties are just so bland and completely lacking in any sort of radical idea. they all come from the same public school backgrounds, have never held proper jobs and when I read a new policy initiative I have to check to see which party it has come from. this is the real problem the total disconnect between people and politics. where there is a void. something will always come along to fill it.

Their the most libertarian out all the major parties. sic

Really, at which end of libertarianism are they? Personally I don't think many of them are intelligent enough to have developed any sort of political philosophy.

Mummy Farage went to Dulwich college. Milliband went to state school.

To be honest OP, I think the "most likely" people to vote for the Nazis would be your average voter who follows the common crowd, not those who think about what who they are voting for that much. I think you are confusing political ideology with controllism, remember the Nazis were actually called the National Socialists. I think a diverse political spectrum is best and suspect, rather than anything to sinister, UKIP have appeared because the UK lacks a diverse political spectrum, with only 2 1/2 main parties whom everyone is expected to fit their views around.

I actually find censorship of political views more sinister. Some of the left wing strongly communist views are tolerated but more right wing has a certain left wing supporter trying to wipe it out of existence. If UKIP is going to be a mainstream party, our country's unwritten constitution and system of checks and balances will operate so as to keep it on the straight and narrow.

dawndonnaagain - look at miliblands background. hardly a working class hero. I am not defending farage and his crew. I am just putting the point that running around shouting racist, facist don't vote for them isn't going to cut any mustard at the moment. there is a whole tranch of working and middle class people who feel completely disenfranchised by the current political system. they will vote UKIP as a protest. they will continue to vote it until the other parties wake up and stop being so bland and ineffectual. instead of shouting about it and writing stuff on here the political parties should start asking themselves why is UKIP striking a cord with so many different groups of voters both traditional tory and labour.

Milliband may have gone to state school, but he didn't exactly come from an impoverished background - and Tony Blair was another public school boy from one of the better private schools. Labour doesn't have the monopoly on state schools.