To be upset that there are 3 Ukip posters up in houses down my road :(

[LEMmingaround]

It is a pretty working class street, some council, some privately owned houses. Not sure if that is relevant but WHY the fuck would you advertise the fact that you are a fuckwit? All of the people with the notices up are older people - older than me, which is 43 (im not older!!!! - ok, maybe a bit).

Its pretty worrying really that what i would normally see as very respectable folk have been sucked in by this bullshit?

This is a conservative ward, and although dissilussioned with the previous gov i have always voted labour - i am going to have to vote bloody tory in a half beat effort to keep Ukip out of the area :(

My DD lives in a town with a ukip counsellor - its fucking dire and getting worse :(

So what's your solution to the housing crisis? Let me guess, build more houses? That's just kicking the can down the road for a future populace to deal with. Those houses fill up and then we get to the same problem again. And the country is even more crowded. What we need is a lower population. And to achieve this we need to set strict limits on immigration. British people aren't having that many kids, so it wouldn't be that hard to do, within a couple of generations we'd be down to 40 million or so, which is about the most that these islands can hold comfortably.

...& then what do you imagine would be the average age of the population?

Leaving aside the fact that only 2.27% of the UK is built on, according to the BBC...so we probably could squeeze a few more dwellings in somewhere.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

MrsBlackthorn Sun 11-May-14 18:22:41

Hi yes it is which is why I dealt with both issues ('factors') separately.

By leaving the Euro, Spain could devalue - this is ultimately the only way to increase economic competitiveness. They can diversify their economy further was my point regarding tourism, there being scope for growth. Whether it is 'clustered' matters not it will increase tax revenues and provide employment opportunities.

Can you provide a source for your statement - "Leaving the Euro would have had huge negative impacts on transaction costs and inward investment for other sectors with high levels of exports (farming, automotive, energy, technology), creating further job losses."

Why would devaluing a currency (and so therefore devaluing the labour market) create job losses? On the contrary, labour becomes cheaper and exports too! Business and investment are more likely to increase - that has been proven through the decades. Where the Spanish economy will suffer is through imports - they would become more expensive. As for transaction costs, there are plenty of example of EU states outside of the Eurozone successfully trading and in many cases doing better than those inside the Eurozone.

On EU membership it has been well documented that unemployment has risen over the years since Spain joined and this trend has shown no sign of changing. How do you explain this? Source below

"Contrary to what politicians hoped, membership of the EU has not
reduced unemployment. The unemployment rate was rising even in the late 1980s, which were years of high economic growth, and well into the 1990s. In 1998, 20 percent of the working population were unemployed, according to Eurocom (1998)."

www.royalholloway.ac.uk/geography/documents/pdf/currentstudents/fieldtrip/spain-eu.pdf

I agree it has enabled easier trade within the EU but there are costs to this (especially for the UK as I mentioned). 56% youth unemployment and mass demonstrations across Spain are signs of the growing discontent. Who do you blame this on if not the EU? I personally think the Euro project is primarily to fault.

You really need to check your facts on EU immigration - over 4 million net came to the UK between 1997-2010 (government figures - google it!) The question is both demand and supply and at what rate we should set this as. Would you rather uncontrolled EU immigration and building upon greenbelt land so as to cater for demand? It is wrong to suggest EU immigration has a 'marginal effect' when the letting industry (which I work in) have been documenting the growing problem for almost a decade! Why else do you think house prices remain near record high levels comparable to wages? House building has been neglected unquestionably, but the rate of recent EU immigration has caused serious structural and economic consequences within the housing market, especially for our aspiring home-owners and the young who either rent or live at home.

I don't know about UKIP policies but it worries me that politicians like Nick Clegg want to stifle the EU debate. Labour and the Conservatives need to open the debate up and add some weight to the debate.

'British people aren't having that many kids'...er...

www.mapsofworld.com/europe/thematic/countries-by-birth-rate.html

Im not getting your point Tucson

The population was 50 million in the 1950s, so it risen to about 61 million now, even if we stop any imigration (which has pointed out wouldnt actually change the population much) how will we get down to 40 million in about 20/30 years? I`m not understanding. Dont forget if we come out of the EU then our 2.8 million will also probably have to come back.

But yes, we do need more housing, and UKIP are not going to help with that.

Irish migration to Britain has always been pretty high, and predates any EU membership - does anyone know what percentage of EU migrants in Britain are Irish? I seem to think I read somewhere that it was about the same amount as Polish migrants (although I suspect those are now outdated figures and it now has outpaced all other EU migration).

Would UKIP apply the same restrictions to Irish migrants as any other EU migrants?

SundayPolitics This is a long but excellent summary of the impacts of leaving the EU, including impacts on trade, housing, and much else besides. www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=rp13-42

In short, it would be very bad for our economy, and have wide-ranging consequences on everything from air quality to the cost of groceries. And cost thousands of jobs though lost inward investment.

Ironic that you've asked me to check my figures on immigration numbers saying 'government figures', when I referenced that exact stat with a link to that well-known left-wing organ, the Financial Times.

OneStepCloser - stop pedalling lies! If we left the EU people would not be forced to leave. It would only affect FUTURE immigration. Thereby reducing the rate of population growth - perhaps enough to allow house building to catch up.

No: if we left the EU, Britons would no longer have the right to work in Europe, so they would have to come back - increasing the UK population by approx 2.8million.

...which, logically, would significantly increase pressure on housing supply.

Mrs Blackthorn - I'm not signed up to the FT so cannot access the article or the date it was written but can assure you that the most recent and revised government figures total 4 million net immigration under Labour, check the ONS website and Migration Watch for clarity or simply type in google, 'immigration 4 million 1997 2010' - the official figures were changed and released this year. The numbers we are talking about are huge respective of historical net immigration to this country.

www.migrationwatchuk.org/

What makes you think that European countries would expel all British ex-pats if we were to leave the EU?

So you're asking me to believe figures from an anti-immigration lobby group rather than those from the House of Commons library and the FT?

"What makes you think that European countries would expel all British ex-pats if we were to leave the EU?"

Why on earth would they allow Brits to work in their country when we wouldn't allow their citizens to do the same?

MrsBlackthorn - if we left the EU under what law would all British citizens be forced to return to the UK? Think about how daft that suggestion is before replying...

The immigration controls Britain has for non-EU member nations allow for controlled immigration and work visas. The same would apply to all future EU immigrants and presumably would be imposed on us by the EU. That is not to say that all British citizens would be forced to leave the continent and vice versa with the EU citizens currently residing here! What kind of twisted world do you live in? Please provide a link to back up THAT claim :)

What lies? If we left Europe ex pats would no longer be able to move around freely. Erm so they'd have to come back. Works both ways.

Lots

Seriously, think about it. If we leave the EU, Brits would no longer have the right to work in other EU countries. Are you seriously suggesting that they would be given that right by each other EU country, without us doing the same?

Brits would become subject to non-EU immigration and work visa requirements in every other EU state. So they would have to apply for a work visa to work in Germany, for example, in the same way that someone migrating from, say, India to Germany currently does.

If they wanted to stay, as expats, they would need to apply for residency to that country.

British people have been living and working overseas long before Schengen.

And I have already provided a link - it's in the paper I already posted a link to. As well as making quite clear logical sense.

That's the thing with UKIP's suggestion that leaving Europe will fix all out problems; it doesn't stand up to even the most basic logical scrutiny.

Sorry, I don't know what happened there

I have an autistic child .and if you think that ukip could suddenly find between 60 thousand to 80 thousand per year to educate and care for every disabled child in britian .they are having a laugh .I mean do I think they will kick in my door and take away my child .eh no likely

Not likely at all. What would happen is that they would shove them into an institution costing much less than that, because they wouldn't bother to try to educate them. And whilst I wish aprilanne nothing but good, if she and her dp fell under a bus it wouldn't be necessary to kick her door in would it? I certainly would hate to leave a child with a learning disability to the care of a system run by UKIP.

Mrs Blackthorn - i assume you mean migration watch; the only independent forecaster to accurately predict the levels of immigration after the transitional controls were lifted for the Poles. The Home Office lets not forget predicted 13,000 Polish would arrive each year when it was closer to 100,000 per year.

Check the ONS or govt website or if you insist I will find you a link

fwiw, this is what I think could happen. Yes, loads of people vote UKIP in two weeks time.The other parties will sit up and take notice.

Or, we could just end up with a load of MEPs who will never turn up at the EU Parliament (other than to collect their allowances) so we will have no effective say in EU government. That's not what I want to vote for.