To be upset that there are 3 Ukip posters up in houses down my road :(

[LEMmingaround]

It is a pretty working class street, some council, some privately owned houses. Not sure if that is relevant but WHY the fuck would you advertise the fact that you are a fuckwit? All of the people with the notices up are older people - older than me, which is 43 (im not older!!!! - ok, maybe a bit).

Its pretty worrying really that what i would normally see as very respectable folk have been sucked in by this bullshit?

This is a conservative ward, and although dissilussioned with the previous gov i have always voted labour - i am going to have to vote bloody tory in a half beat effort to keep Ukip out of the area :(

My DD lives in a town with a ukip counsellor - its fucking dire and getting worse :(

[sundaypolitics26]

Martorana - have a read of this, and I would also suggest looking for a recent 15 minute interview with Paul Weston
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100269400/britain-has-just-witnessed-a-political-arrest-where-is-the-liberal-outrage

This article was highlighted in the blog post above -
www.eastleighnews.co.uk/2013/12/police-probe-ukip-cabbies-santa-sign/

I have not seen an outcry over this police investigation. Not Labour nor the Green Party or any other raising this issue (presumably because it is a UKIP supporter) and yet the media and the main political parties have gone out of their way to drive this twitter complaint story. I have read the Police statement in that case and the complaint was apparently 'electoral fraud'... The Guardian completely overlooked this fact, but this plays into this populist belief that a right-wing party WILL impose on your freedom of speech...

We have both agreed it is an offensive passage but what constitutes incitement has now become a blurred line. I'm sure a Christian would be offended if protesters were allowed to say 'Death to all infidels' and 'Christians burn in hell' etc - Stacey Dooley presented an hour long documentary and was subjected to awful abuse. Is this not inciting a hatred towards British culture?
www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ad_1369630825

[Martorana]

Sundaypolitics, do you know why Mr Weston chose to read that passage aloud?

[Martorana]

And I don't see what you are saying about the Father Christmas sign. It was complained about the police came round, had a word, then told him he could leave it up. A non story, surely?

[sundaypolitics26]

Martorana - Hold on, did you read my post, the links posted or watch the 4 minute clip I linked to? Please do. His reasoning seems to follow that you cannot speak out against Islam in public.

libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/home/root/news-libertygb/6390-video-paul-weston-could-face-2-years-in-jail-for-quoting-churchill

[sundaypolitics26]

Yes a non story just like this, only the Green Party leader, Labour Politicians and numerous news outlets have come out and condemned this police action. Both are non stories but only one has been made into an issue by political parties and media alike. Do you not believe this is a non story? Is electoral fraud not worthy of police investigation?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/12/police-ask-blogger-remove-legitimate-tweet-ukip

[MrsBlackthorn]

Investigation, yes. The police then reviewed it and said that no offence had been committed. Investigation complete.

What they should not have done is then suggested the guy delete his tweet, because there was nothing illegal about it.

There is a legal standard for hate speech, and it will be up to the CPS to choose to prosecute, and then for the court to decide, in the case of the Churchill Quoter. The police found there was a case to answer in this instance.

"I have not seen an outcry over this police investigation"

Erm, because that guy sounds like an absolute loon. From the news piece: "Last week he explained to Ray Turner that he had put the sign up because he wanted the UK to leave the EU and also expressed strong views on the EU, freemasonry, Catholicism and the ‘common purpose’ leadership development programme."

[Martorana]

Sorry, I really don't understand now.

[PosyFossilsShoes]

UKIP candidate has said women shouldn't have been given the vote.

I will never understand why women in particular would vote for this set of dinosaurs. www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/05/13/strip-public-of-the-vote-says-ukip-candidate

[MrsBlackthorn]

The number of Romanians and Bulgarians working in the UK has actually gone down this year compared to last.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/14/number-romanian-bulgarian-workers-falls-border-controls

So much for UKIP's predictions of an influx of millions!

[sundaypolitics26]

"Investigation, yes. The police then reviewed it and said that no offence had been committed. Investigation complete. What they should not have done is then suggested the guy delete his tweet, because there was nothing illegal about it."

Then the Police are to blame for suggesting he should delete the tweet and must answer for any foul play. The complaint was a genuine one, investigation followed, no issue and that should have been the end of it. Instead a media frenzy has ensued.

Whether the guy sounds like 'an absolute loon' or not his right to post a sign on his property was investigated after formal complaints were made, investigation followed, no issue and that WAS the end of it. See the difference?

[TucsonGirl]

"The number of Romanians and Bulgarians working in the UK has actually gone down this year compared to last."
How is it compared to 20 years ago? My guess is up several thousand percent.

[Martorana]

"See the difference?"
Not really-sorry!

[sundaypolitics26]

I think you are getting your facts mixed up again Mrs Blackthorn - the numbers of Romanian and Bulgarians working has gone down in the first three months of 2014. The overall figure for the year is up by 29,000 year-on-year. Not that working numbers is a benchmark for immigration...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10829620/Number-of-Romanian-and-Bulgarian-workers-falls-since-EU-restrictions-relaxed.html

[BeyondRepair]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2627976/The-influx-not-happened-Number-Romanians-Bulgarians-jobs-Britain-FALLS-work-curbs-lifted.html

Just wanted to re assure those that think people only get their political views from the Daily Mail, there is a chink of light and hope for you here.


Don't Panic: This will stop them all voting UKIP.

If of course they all read the Mail and vote according to what its says...

[MrsBlackthorn]

29,0000, the majority of whom came here before work restrictions were lifted. Given the numbers went down after restrictions were lifted, how does this prove tighter restrictions are needed?

[MrsBlackthorn]

"See the difference?"

Err, no. You yourself concede the police were wrong to ask the guy to delete the tweet. Therefore there is interest from the media.

The chap with the sign had a visit from the police, who concluded he had done nothing wrong, and that was the end of it. What should the media have had an outcry about?

[Icimoi]

The complaint was a genuine one, investigation followed, no issue and that should have been the end of it.

But if UKIP is so wedded to freedom of speech, why was the complaint made in the first place if not to try to close down that particular avenue for free speech?

[Martorana]

Going back to Mr Manson, did he have a purpose in reading out that extraordinary bit of prose apart from mischief making?

[sundaypolitics26]

"Err, no. You yourself concede the police were wrong to ask the guy to delete the tweet. Therefore there is interest from the media."

Because people are making a song and dance out of two separate issues. The first issue as highlighted by Icimoi above "why was the complaint made in the first place" is being peddled as some attempt to close down debate. If you look at the Police report it was over a complaint for electoral fraud - the Police should definitely take an interest if a complaint has been made.

The second issue as you state is that the police asked for the tweet to be deleted. This is obviously not right! But to blame the improper behaviour of two police officers as some sort of UKIP conspiracy is just ridiculous. The media and Green Party leader have intentionally laid the blame at the feet of the UKIP Councillor who made the initial complaint.

This is clearly a Police-related issue but posters like Icimoi can't seem to differentiate between the two separate issues. This is all part of the UKIP witchhunt. I'm just glad it's not directed at the Conservative party :)

[sundaypolitics26]

Martorana - Given he campaigns for a group called Liberty, I assume he was trying to prove a point that you cannot criticise a religion in public.

[sundaypolitics26]

"29,0000, the majority of whom came here before work restrictions were lifted. Given the numbers went down after restrictions were lifted, how does this prove tighter restrictions are needed?"

It doesn't. But given these are employment figures, not immigration statistics it isn't conclusive evidence that fewer people are immigrating. It only proves fewer people are now working than were before the restrictions were lifted.

On a side note the number of people in employment in the UK hit a record high despite unemployment of 6.8%

[Martorana]

"Martorana - Given he campaigns for a group called Liberty, I assume he was trying to prove a point that you cannot criticise a religion in public."

But why choose that particular text?

[grovel]

Well, Martorana, I'm walking on eggshells here. I've worked for multi-nationals all my life and have been prohibited from visiting certain countries because our local management have said our clients would not welcome a woman. They are all Muslim countries. Can I speak out about this?

[Martorana]

Yes. Why not?

[MrsBlackthorn]

I'd suggest, though, that if you actually want to do so me thing about it, you pressure your own employer to stop pandering to this, rather follow that man's lead and read out a random passage of anti-Muslim text in the street, as it fails to highlight issues of gender discrimination, and merely looks like one is trying to incite more general hatred of a religious group.

As an aside, I also work for a multi-national. Through managerial and stakeholder pressure, the group has agreed to take a collective stand against exactly this. We send whoever is best qualified, whatever gender or sexuality. As such I have worked with clients in Muslim-majority countries across the Middle East and Africa. If companies want the best deal, they will deal with you whatever gender you are - money talks. The only exception is where this isn't legally possible (Saudi, or for gay colleagues, countries where being gay can land one in legal trouble).

No one has suggested it's not possible to criticise discrimination of women in some Muslim countries - in fact, this criticism is actively happening all over the place.