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AIBU?

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Original poster

...to want to say 'honour and obey' in my vows?

521 replies

SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 13:46

Background: we're both feminists. He's a strong personality, very intelligent, very loving, considerate, supports my career, does (more than) half the housework, cooking etc. We're not Christian or conservative.

But...

I am completely submissive to him and he sets the tone in every aspect of our relationship. Obviously there is a strong (and very hot!) BDSM undercurrent to all this. But it goes way beyond the bedroom: he leads, I follow, it's obvious and noticeable, and we both love it.

He's 'in charge'; never controlling. I am always listened to, and feel completely equal. I just do as he says and trust him to do the right thing. We're not ashamed of how we are, it's fundamental to us and because of that we want it to be included in our vows. He says it's up to me but he would like it very much, and I really, really want to say it.

BUT: it would mean outing our 'activities' to all our family and friends. I don't want our wedding to become all about that one line. Maybe no one would really care or give it any thought? We're happy to simply say: 'that's our dynamic and it works for us', to most people, but he has a 20-year-old daughter and it's her we're most worried about. She's sassy and worldly and she'd get it at once and probably be fine with it in private, but might find it really embarrassing and awkward... argh!

Help! It's the whole please ourselves or please others thing, I suppose...

OP posts:
squoosh · 08/05/2014 14:53

But I presume you're told who to vote for?

Brittapieandchips · 08/05/2014 14:53

It's not 'men' who have power, it's the dominant who has the power, whether they are male or female.

The people claiming it is anti feminist... How do you feel about a female dominant and male submissive? Or gay D/s relationships? Is it only not ok for straight women to make this choice?

Nousernameforme · 08/05/2014 14:53

Regardless of your lifestyle unless you say obey "nudge nudge wink wink ooo matron" in manner of carry on films you won't get more than an slightly raised eyebrow try promising to be buxom in bed and board if you want to go completely traditional Grin

TheHappyMonkey · 08/05/2014 14:53

I'm not inclined to judge others relationships choices but I have to admit to being really intrigued by the feminist/submissive role you have in your relationship. I don't really understand how it is equality if you don't get an equal say in decisions? I don't understand why anybody needs to be 'in charge' in a relationship, and I do wonder about the type of man (or woman) who is happy to exercise that level of control over their partner...why would they want that?
I really don't mean to be rude I just struggle to get my head round it.

SnotandBothered · 08/05/2014 14:54

I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

My saying you 'Promise to honour and obey' as part of your vows, you are saying just that. The operative word is actually 'promise'.

If, in the future, you decide that the dynamic of your relationship has changed - whether in the bnedroom, or anywhere else - you are still 'bound' by that promise. The relationship you describe is one where you have chosen to take a subservant role and can do this comfortably because you know he is not asking/demanding it of you.

A vow goes against this idea of choice.

I honestly son't think you do 'promise to honour and obey'. You 'like to honour and obey'. Currently. Because it currently 'works for you' and not because you believe that a wife 'honouring and obeying a husband is the foundation stone for all marriage. Fr this reason, I wouldn't make the vow because i think that whatever you are 'secretly imagining it to refer to' is not quite in tune with how you say you live.

Does that make sense?

FourForksAche · 08/05/2014 14:55

snot, that makes a lot of sense.

Original poster
SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 14:56

Squoosh: no. He could, I suppose, but he never would. In any case we're both raging lefties so it wouldn't much matter.

OP posts:
MaidOfStars · 08/05/2014 14:57

Feminism doesn't mean that anything goes as long as the choice is made freely. I think feminism had a wider responsibility than that

Agree. For me, the problem with the female submissive role is that it invokes a whole lot of symbolism and historical significance that is definitely anti-feminist.

(Ready for flaming) Consider a different -ism: racism. If we were to observe our white neighbour housing a black person in his shed, putting them to work in the garden every day, shackling them to a post so they couldn't escape, whipping them, and so on, what would we think? Sure, the black person might be there of their own free will - they may have chosen to live like that. But it's a very uncomfortable situation to allow, and one that would probably make an observer question the psychology of the black person in question. How can this be really what they want? Have we not done enough to remove this tableau from our consciousness? Have we failed this particular black person?

Bathtimesoaker · 08/05/2014 14:58

Surely feminism is about giving women the same choices that men have. If you can highlight one man who's promised to obey as part of his marriage vows then this becomes a real debate.

SnotandBothered · 08/05/2014 14:58

Phew FourForks, I know what I am trying to say... Grin

Original poster
SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 14:58

It's much more benign that you might think. Like he'd never tell me how to have my hair, whether or not I could smoke, whether I could go out with friends etc. It's not a controlling thing. He'd feel those things were crossing an important line.

OP posts:
TheHappyMonkey · 08/05/2014 14:59

Steely, why would he want to control you? What sort of person wants to control their partner? I genuinely don't understand but that might be because it's so far from what I would want, I would hate to be in control of someone else and I would hate for someone else to control me. It really baffles me why this would be desirable.

Sallystyle · 08/05/2014 15:00

Yes, I would notice if someone said those words in their vows but it is your day so you get to decide.

However, I get very confused on this feminism thing. I though a feminist was someone who simply believe that woman should have the choice , if a woman wants to be a submissive wife and isn't being coerced into it then how does that not make one a feminist?

Does anyone have any good links to articles that explains it because people telling the OP she isn't a feminist is very confusing. I thought it was all about having the right to choose just like men do.

noddyholder · 08/05/2014 15:00

You are not a feminist and are using the 'choice' argument tentatively here. Say what you like they are your vows. You are buying into a regressive tradition though Sad

SconeRhymesWithGone · 08/05/2014 15:00

Feminism is about CHOICE.

But not every choice is a feminist choice.

TheHappyMonkey · 08/05/2014 15:00

Oh sorry, x post. So (forgive my nosiness) what sort of things does he control outside of the bedroom? How does it work in practice?

CinnabarRed · 08/05/2014 15:00

DH and I were not allowed to add any additional words to our civil ceremony.

XH and I were allowed to add a couple of sentences each, providing none were religious and none were from any other marriage service (i.e. of religious origin).

You will not be permitted to say these words by the registrar.

Have you realised this?

On the voting: if you wanted to vote for candidate X, and your husband told you to vote for candidate Y, who would you vote for?

Sallystyle · 08/05/2014 15:01

women not woman* in the second sentence.

CorusKate · 08/05/2014 15:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mrsdoasyouwouldbedoneby · 08/05/2014 15:02

How can she not be her husband's equal? As a human being surely she is equal to him. She just chooses to take the submissive role in the relationship. With mutual respect that works, better than the ones where the 'ship' is being pulled two ways! And not being submissive does not prevent abuse, or mean a woman is any more likely to recognise and do something about it. Surely that is a dangerous and simplistic judgement to make?

I am guessing you do not consider yourselves to be inferior to any bosses/managers/the PM? Someone technically 'in charge' of you? You submit to laws/rules, but that does not make you less important/equal as a person? My husband genuinely does not treat me as an inferior, I genuinely submit (in the religious sense). I know I am lucky (I guess), but I have seen relationships where other things have led the way, and they were not pretty.

Brittapieandchips · 08/05/2014 15:02

I have no idea about their wedding vows, but there are plenty of men wandering about wearing collars.

I do think snot makes a good point though. I know you mean what you mean, but it's worth thinking about.

Then again, swingers promise to exclude all others if they get legally married, and just redefine it to their own personal definition in their head.

FourForksAche · 08/05/2014 15:03

steely, in that case, apart from sex, what exactly do you mean when you say you obey him? do you only submit on agreed areas? how did you two come to know that if he asked you to behave in certain ways re hair, smoking, then that would. be crossing a line?

bigkidsdidit · 08/05/2014 15:04

Just because a woman makes a choice, it isn't automatically feminist. And choices are not made totally freely - we all carry centuries of conditioning around with us.

CinnabarRed · 08/05/2014 15:04

It's much more benign that you might think. Like he'd never tell me how to have my hair, whether or not I could smoke, whether I could go out with friends etc. It's not a controlling thing. He'd feel those things were crossing an important line.

So he doesn't actually tell you what to do at all then? Confused

Can you give us some examples of where he makes decisions and you follow?

Whether to go on holiday at all? When to go? Duration? Where to go?

At the moment it sounds an awful lot like two very compatible people who want to do the same types of thing and who happen to be into BDSM. Great news for your marriage, but information to be kept in the bedroom surely.

WorraLiberty · 08/05/2014 15:05

Firstly, this has nothing to do with BDSM and every thing to do with having a sub/dom relationship. If that's the lifestyle you choose, I'm surprised you don't even know what it's called.

Secondly, if that's the lifestyle you've chosen, why are are you so ashamed of it? You'll need to toughen up.

Thirdly, was there really any need to name change?

I really think you're assuming people will actually care, whereas I don't think you could be further from the truth Smile