Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to want to say 'honour and obey' in my vows?

521 replies

SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 13:46

Background: we're both feminists. He's a strong personality, very intelligent, very loving, considerate, supports my career, does (more than) half the housework, cooking etc. We're not Christian or conservative.

But...

I am completely submissive to him and he sets the tone in every aspect of our relationship. Obviously there is a strong (and very hot!) BDSM undercurrent to all this. But it goes way beyond the bedroom: he leads, I follow, it's obvious and noticeable, and we both love it.

He's 'in charge'; never controlling. I am always listened to, and feel completely equal. I just do as he says and trust him to do the right thing. We're not ashamed of how we are, it's fundamental to us and because of that we want it to be included in our vows. He says it's up to me but he would like it very much, and I really, really want to say it.

BUT: it would mean outing our 'activities' to all our family and friends. I don't want our wedding to become all about that one line. Maybe no one would really care or give it any thought? We're happy to simply say: 'that's our dynamic and it works for us', to most people, but he has a 20-year-old daughter and it's her we're most worried about. She's sassy and worldly and she'd get it at once and probably be fine with it in private, but might find it really embarrassing and awkward... argh!

Help! It's the whole please ourselves or please others thing, I suppose...

OP posts:
TheHappyMonkey · 08/05/2014 15:05

Mrsd, I don't consider myself to be inferior to my boss as a human being, beaut I do consider myself to have less power and status in the workplace. I can't imagine wanting to feel that I had less power and status in my relationship with a partner.

Nancy66 · 08/05/2014 15:06

Is this that stupid movement started in America? The 'surrendered wife' shit?

TheHappyMonkey · 08/05/2014 15:06
  • but not beaut!
Original poster
SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 15:10

He just wouldn't do it. He doesn't want to control me like that - he wants me to have my hair how I want, smoke if I want, vote for who I want etc.

He loves and respects me, ultimately, and I trust him, that's whole incredibly intimate beauty of it. He decides what we do at the weekends, says I should have a manual car rather than auto so we can share cars more easily, that kind of mundane, everyday stuff. He isn't constantly bossing me about.

OP posts:
DisgruntledAardvark · 08/05/2014 15:11

This all just sounds like an post-watershed version of the whole I'm mad, me! thing, tbh.

Original poster
SteelyMindedLiberal · 08/05/2014 15:12

I get a say in all this stuff too, by the way! But he has final say. We discuss most of it, and he's measured and reasonable. Works beautifully for us.

OP posts:
PoundingTheStreets · 08/05/2014 15:12

I probably wouldn't notice because while I love a good wedding in many respects - all that happiness and hope for the future, what's not to like - the actually ceremony is, let's face it, really boring unless you're one of the two getting married or an extremely close relative/friend. I tend to zone out and thought most people did TBH.

If I did notice, I'd assume traditionalism far more readily than I'd ever think of BDSM. And I'm not at all sure that your feminist behaviour up to this point would make people think it's unlikely. Some of the most ball-breaking (to use a stupid but point-making phrase) women out there can be highly traditional when it comes to marriage, taking their DH's name, etc. I don't think most people would give it a second thought.

FourForksAche · 08/05/2014 15:13

I don't get it. But I believe you have a right to live in whatever way makes you happy.

I too would worry about kids growing up with this dynamic as their norm.

somedizzywhore1804 · 08/05/2014 15:13

I wouldn't think BDSM if I heard this. Maybe I will now Blush

LoonvanBoon · 08/05/2014 15:14

Happy, but I can't understand zillions of things about the way other people choose to live their lives - does it really matter? The desire to control / be controlled isn't part of my psychosexual make-up either, but then neither are lots of things.

I don't think in reality I see too many relationships where there is 100% equality, anyway, thinking about it. I often have stronger opinions than DH & he's more laid-back - I'm also a bit more organized - so I guess I exercise a bit more power on a day-to-day level. It's not a formal adoption of roles, like in the OP's relationship, but then we all often end up adopting roles that haven't been set out explicitly, just because of the personalities we are. When does that become a problem?

I also read about plenty of relationships on here where control is being exercised in horrible ways - often by a man refusing to communicate, forcing a partner to "nag" in order to get him to take on a fair share of housework / childcare, etc. etc. I find those scenarios much more disturbing.

And those of you who keep saying the OP is making a retrogressive / antifeminist choice, really need to answer Britta's question. Are D/S relationships only unacceptable when it's a heterosexual women taking on the submissive role, or are they unacceptable full stop? If the latter, it can hardly be on feminist grounds - surely - that it's not okay for a gay man to submit to another gay man? So what is the problem?

If the former, this leads to a position where straight women have fewer "acceptable" choices in their personal / sexual relationships than straight men / gay men & women. Very bloody feminist.

CinnabarRed · 08/05/2014 15:14

He decides what we do at the weekends, says I should have a manual car rather than auto so we can share cars more easily, that kind of mundane, everyday stuff. He isn't constantly bossing me about.

Then it's all a bit of a non-issue, isn't it?

And I utterly fail to see how it's obvious and noticeable if it's as you describe it. Or, indeed, anyone else's business.

You seem quite attention seeking on this, TBH.

Xihha · 08/05/2014 15:16

They're your vows so promise what you want.

Without the back story I doubt anyone would think it was anything other than for the sake of tradition, my mum said honour and obey in her vows and until I read this it never occurred to me that it might be anything more than because it's traditional and even her very loud, outspoken best friend hasn't commented (if there was any hint it was a sex thing the best friend would have made a smutty joke, that's just how she is)

TheHappyMonkey · 08/05/2014 15:16

Loon, no in the grand scheme of things it probably doesn't matter but when I find something confusing and I have the opportunity to ask questions to try to understand it better I will take that opportunity.

FourForksAche · 08/05/2014 15:17

loon, marvelous post.

LoonvanBoon · 08/05/2014 15:17

Fair enough, happy!

Whitewaters · 08/05/2014 15:17

I don't think this makes any difference, because, as others have said, the registrar won't let you say it! There can't be any religious connections.

The civil ceremony vows are quite basic, and not in the same tone so tbh it would stick out like a sore thumb. For what it's worth, I would notice and think that's really odd but probably not get the BDSM reference, so I'd then spend the rest of the day wondering why you'd said it.

Why not write your own vows and incorporate something similar into them? That way you could make the promises you want but without making it really obvious and weird.

MaidOfStars · 08/05/2014 15:18

He decides what we do at the weekends, says I should have a manual car rather than auto so we can share cars more easily, that kind of mundane, everyday stuff

Golly, today I learned that sometimes I am the sub (is that the right term) is a D/S relationship....

I mean, deciding to have a car that maxmises the needs of the family, that's dominant?

Does he tell you how to spend your money?

CinnabarRed · 08/05/2014 15:21

Yup, MaidOfStars - turns out I'm a dom. Who knew? Not DH, that's for sure.

squoosh · 08/05/2014 15:22

I don't care what people get up to in their private lives although I would be aghast at a female friend of mine being submissive to her male partner in all aspects of her life. My main concern would be children born into this relationship who would take their parents model as a relationship template.

Bathtimesoaker · 08/05/2014 15:27

In what other relationship are the vows allowed to use the word obey? A gay marriage wouldn't. In a hetero marriage, no man would be allowed to say obey. Why oh why oh why, is it always the woman who has a choice in whether they obey or not?

Why don't we ever hear men worry about whether they should promise to obey in their wedding vows? Oh yes.....because it's not allowed or accepted that they would obey.

FourForksAche · 08/05/2014 15:28

squoosh, yes, I agree, it's like it takes other options away from the children because they haven't learned about them.

hope that makes sense, Confused

SconeRhymesWithGone · 08/05/2014 15:29

A PP asked for articles on the choice question. Here is one:

www.herizons.ca/node/526

worldgonecrazy · 08/05/2014 15:34

Late to the party, and having skim-read the thread, I see you're having a civil service so will not be able to use the words anyway.

But if anyone else is still reading and thinking about using the words, they can only be used in a church wedding if the other partner also uses the same vows, which for the man state that he will "love, honour and WORSHIP". [hmmm]

mrsminiverscharlady · 08/05/2014 15:35

You say that at the moment he only gets to decide the mundane stuff and dominate you in bed? So why do you want to make a vow to obey him without any qualification? You say he doesn't get to decide important things, but what if he disagrees with you on something important? If you wouldn't obey him then I don't see the point of vowing to obey him at your wedding.

Personally I don't think any sub/dom relationship is a very healthy one by definition. While I'm being judgmental I'm also of the opinion that a relationship where one of the participants behaves very differently within it compared with the rest of their life and personality, is also probably not a very healthy one. If I was one of your friends hearing you say those vows would just make me more worried about you than I would be already.

whatever5 · 08/05/2014 15:36

Maybe I'm in the minority but wouldn't be impressed if someone said that they would "honour and obey" their spouse in their wedding vows (if I was listening to the vows that is). It wouldn't occur to me that they were doing it because they were into BDSM though. I would just think that they aimed to be a Stepford Wife.