To be confused by the Halal meat thing.

[LEMmingaround]

I don't understand why this is a problem. 90% of the animals are stunned before they are killed anyway - so what is the problem?

I do think it should be labelled as there are some religeons (sihks i think) for who this would be a problem but people getting upset over halal meat served in subway/pizza express? REALLY? To me it just sounds like an excuse for prejudice. Those people quite happy to eat the meat from there tht is not halal and probably don't give a flying fuck what happened to the animals during their lives or at their slaughter. If you were tht worried about that sort of thing you would a) be vegetarian/vegan or b) only ever eat meat that you knew where it came from and that was treated properly. Am i being niave that thinking that having to respect and pray for an animal at slaughter (even if the slaughter is not pleasant) that they may well have good welfare standards? Most of the meat you get from TEsco comes from the EU and the standards don't meat the UK standards for living conditions.

The fact is Kosher slaughter has been around for ages yet no one batted an eyelid. Halal slaughter becomes more prevalent albeit mostly stunned and there is a massive outcry, is that creeping fundamentalism or creeping anti islamic feeling?

Maybe it's because kosher-type slaughter, while unacceptable to many, is an utterly miniscule part of the trade so used to pass unnoticed? It also doesn't appear to be the reason "religiously slaughtered" meat is being imposed on the majority, not least because it doesn't produce anything like enough to go round. Unless I've missed it, I've also never heard of large scale caterers/retailers making wholesale changes to their menus to suit the needs of kosher eaters

Halal abattoirs, on the other hand, are reported to make up 25% of the UK total and are growing quickly; they also apparently produce far more meat than the muslim population could ever eat. In addition many food providers definitely are changing their menus to allow for muslim sensibiliies - though some are more open than others in telling us so

As most posters have said, there's absolutely no problem with any group sourcing the food of their choice ... only with that choice being imposed on others. I wouldn't personally have said that's anti-Islamic, though I realise many would like to claim that it is; for me it's simply an objection to the removal of choice for the majority, and while this particular thread was about halal meat, for me that would be the same whatever the reason

Nomama, I appreciate that non-stunned slaughter currently has an exemption, but as I understand it that's not quite the same as it being fully endorsed in law - another reason why I'm glad this is apparently being reviewed. I personally care about both the non-stun and labelling issues, but totally agree with you that discussing the two together can lead to confusion ...

LEMmingaround what has accepting other religions got to do with meat? I do not want to eat meat that has been blessed. Why is the food industry pandering to this, and why are people being branded as racist just because they want transparency.

What about Sikhs? their religion dictates that they should not eat meat that has been ritualistically slaughtered. Why are people having to justify the meaning of their religion's or lack of religion over this foolishness. I would like to have knowledge and choice in what I'm eating. The meat industry knew they were wrong that is why they have been secretive about this.

I don't think a blessing changes the flavour!

By the way, I for one do not believe the OP is as nonplussed as she has made out on this thread, there have been lots of articles, interviews and radio shows about this, unless you have been living under a rock, what is so confusing?

I think it is because the Kosher meat isn't creeping into the food chain in the way the halal meat is.

I don't want to eat it and want it to be labelled.

I agree with you that it should be clearly labelled so that people can make their choices.

serendipity - i am no longer nonplussed but my intentions were genuine in starting this thread. I genuinely didn't know what the process was

I dont want to eat Halal or Kosher meat either, that is my choice. Its like choosing to eat organic veg, being sold something organic and its something else. The consumer has a right to transparency we are not children.

But half of every kosher slaughtered sheep/lamb/cow is in the general meat supply! Nobody in the UK makes the hind quarter kosher.

So this has been happening for 50 years or so without mention. There is more transparency about halal meat being used by places like Pizza Express. It is on their website. It isn't on the menu because the don't guarantee halal, if one day non halal chicken is cheaper they will but that. Their Muslim customers don't eat it due to that reason.

By the way, I for one do not believe the OP is as nonplussed as she has made out on this thread

I agree.

I think its dis ingenious, and I think people should really start to think about the implications of using the word racist all the time, not only to the person they are calling racist but also, the wider implications of flinging this word around so carelessly.

What littleducks said of course Kosher meat is in the food chain, the abattoirs don't just chuck away half a cow.

It's just that the Daily Mail et al aren't and never have reported about that.

Very simplistic lemming there is so much more to food than the taste! We all should stop and think a lot more about what we consume, whether it is meat, vegetable, clothes, furniture you name it.

kinkytoes I agree with your post, but its not just important for us to think about it, the food industry has be be forced to be more transparent, however their excuse at their moment, is that there is no space on the packages for an additional label.

I also agree with a previous poster, people are so quick to label others with the label 'racist' and it really pisses me off. It seems that having an alternative view is racist etc. and that is wrong. That is a powerful word to throw at someone and it should be said lightly.

I object to being sold halal and kosher meat without my knowledge, whats your view on me crescentmoon. I was listening to a radio show this week on BBC and they had musalim and jewish people saying that they would prefer labeling and more transparency so your argument is moot.

Your point Crescentmoon?

I don't know if anyone has posted this.. and know how hated the mail is but I read this today

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2623879/We-Muslims-appalled-sale-halal-meat-stealth.html

Thinking I should've read the whole thread first

I think people should really start to think about the implications of using the word racist all the time, not only to the person they are calling racist but also, the wider implications of flinging this word around so carelessly

I couldn't agree with you more

Granted any normal person would challenge real bigotry - and so they should - but it's only too easy for the word to be thrown around because someone simply doesn't like the way a discussion is going and would like to see it end

Personally I've learned a lot from this thread and others like it ... I might not always like what I've learned but at least I'm better informed I'd hate to have lost that chance because someone might prefer it not to have been brought up at all ...

Nice one, Faez I posted a quote from that upthread, but it was a great idea of yours to post the whole thing

It was wonderful to read such a well balanced piece (I learned a lot from that too) though I can't help wondering what some will make of "It is high time the white, liberal, Guardian-reading classes stopped behaving like apologists and woke up. There is a fundamentalist Trojan horse in our midst, and we must take corrective action"

I'm trying not to think of the sheer carnage which would probably have followed, had a non-muslim written that ...

Nomana I have one question for you though, so I can be 100% clear what it is you mean by Halal meat. DO you mean meat that is not pre-stunned or meat that is pre-stunned and prayed over?

The problem is that even the halal market cannot agree on what constitutes halal slaughter, and practices are inconsistent.

I don't want to eat anything that is halal meat in any shape or form at all. I don't have the religious requirement to do so. Don't want to buy it, aren't going to eat it.

Likewise, since I am capable of thinking for myself, I don't want to eat badly slaughtered animals. That are not properly stunned before slaughter. I don't want animals hung up waiting to be stunned for a long time either. Neither do I wish to eat animals taken a long distance to slaughter. Hence I tend to buy locally, when I do eat meat, which isn't often. I live rurally. My father was in fact a slaughterman for a while before he opened his butchers business.. It was a while ago admittedly. He specialised in pigs. In actual fact, I don't eat much at all. Ate far too much meat as a child!

SoftlySoftly Unlike the Daily Hate Mail and EDL today which is I suspect your reading material of choice

I don't even know what the EDL is. Is it maybe the English Defence League? If so, I don't think it has much of a presence in Scotland. My reading material today was several court cases and judicial precedents and the Myner Report.