To be confused by the Halal meat thing.

[LEMmingaround]

I don't understand why this is a problem. 90% of the animals are stunned before they are killed anyway - so what is the problem?

I do think it should be labelled as there are some religeons (sihks i think) for who this would be a problem but people getting upset over halal meat served in subway/pizza express? REALLY? To me it just sounds like an excuse for prejudice. Those people quite happy to eat the meat from there tht is not halal and probably don't give a flying fuck what happened to the animals during their lives or at their slaughter. If you were tht worried about that sort of thing you would a) be vegetarian/vegan or b) only ever eat meat that you knew where it came from and that was treated properly. Am i being niave that thinking that having to respect and pray for an animal at slaughter (even if the slaughter is not pleasant) that they may well have good welfare standards? Most of the meat you get from TEsco comes from the EU and the standards don't meat the UK standards for living conditions.

Catch Islam is that like cathing "the gay"?

Not being goady at all - i wanted to know if there were welfare issues i have missed, like is Halal meat treated badly during its life like half of the chicken everyone eats anyway Do the same welfare standards during the animals life apply for halal meat raised in the UK? That would influence whether i ate it or not - i am completely ignorant to the process.

The pope has been blessing wine for decades.... And bread!

Atheist/vegetarian here. I would prefer the country label the meat as I think halal meat is more cruel.

I don't give a fuck if if people say a prayer over their meat or do whatever they do before they kill it, but I do care if the practice is unnecessarily more cruel than other practices. I don't see why atheist shouldn't have a say? I suspect some atheist meat eaters would like to know if the food they are eating is causing more harm because of someone else's belief in sky fairies.

Would i be correct to assume that all meat that i eat in an indian restuarant (one run by muslims) would be halal then?

I posted a few years ago to let people know that their supermarket meat was Halal and nobody was interested.

Something could have been done then if people had have shown the desire to.

Duchy originals lamb is the only non Halal lamb sold in Waitrose BTW.

When you ask supermarket staff most of them don't know what they serve either.

Nomama. "Well, as we have all been eating halal meat for years I don't think there is a problem."

So if non- halal meat had been sold to Muslims for years, would that be no problem too.

The meat should have been labelled.

The thing is, we all ate horse unwittingly, why? because we demanded cheaper and cheaper meat.

One of the reasons Halal is being sold as standard in some places is because it is cheaper to produce, transport just one type to be sold to all. It's all about cost.

Honestly most people choose to turn a blind eye to the way meat is produced and pumped with hormones, battery farmed chicken is not a pleasant sight but it's cheaper so we buy it.

I'm an atheist I really couldn;t care less what prayers were said over my meat before I eat it, I'm only concerned with animal welfare. I do understand other people who feel more strongly about it on faith grounds but I don;t doubt that a sensible discussion is somewhat stymied by the bigotry and ignorance often shown when trying to discuss such things.

However

I'm more baffled by:

If I were a Christian, I would not be allowed to eat meat that was offered in sacrifice to a false God / idol

of course I'm only and atheist but don't Chistians, muslims and jews all worship the same god? And even are all Abrahamic ie they all accept that God revealed himself to the Abraham.

LEM I've been told repeatedly that Atheism is a "belief" as much as established religions are ie I don;t have any proof either way any more than they do. Of course we could get into a scientific definition of what constitutes "proof" but I'm quite happy to be defined that way if those with a religion insist on it... but them you have to give me the courtesy of ranking my "faith" as equally important as any other.

I don't understand if meat in't labeled halal, what good is it? how do Muslims know they can eat it?! It would be like Quorn not labeling their "chicken" vegetarian. Veggies wouldn't touch it with a barge pole

Halaal meat isn't 'offered in sacrifice to a false God'! The prayer just means 'in the name of god most merciful' more or less, like Grace, I suppose. Christians do not worship 'false gods' but if you don't believe in the god being prayed to, how can it affect the meat?

And as for the tax business, the only reference I can find to that is a very very rigt wing (possibly fascist) website assuming that th small fee that someone gets for saying the prayers ends up with Al Queada.

If the animal is stunned before slaughter - just like non halaal meat is stunned before slaughter, I can't see what happens when it is unconcious affects my choice one way or the other, (if I am eating mass produced meat in the first place) and I certainly won't be able to detect the secret prayer ingredient.

LOL at the end of our Christian ways - Chicken Tikka Marsala became the nations favourite dish before anyone knew they were eating halaal meat!

I think chickens being forced to listen to a Justn Bieber tape on loop in their last moments would actually be more cruel.

Is there a Justin Bieber label I can request?

Athiesm isn't a religeon though is it - so why would an atheist care, other than on welfare grounds.

Because having made a conscious decision not to follow any religion why should I have to have any religion forced on me? Personally I don't have a problem eating food that is halal, kosher, whatever, but then I should still have the choice to have access to 'secular' meat in line with my lack of belief.

What I find more concerning is that no one knows whether the meat has actually been stunned or not. It's important to me because I want the animal not to suffer and it's important to Muslims because they want it not to have been stunned. So surely the current system works for no one?

I am fairly sure the grass fed organic meat I but from my butcher is not halal though.

I for one do not wish to eat halal meat. All halal meat should be clearly label so people can avoid it if they so wish.

Amethyst It's still dead flesh though. Dead is dead. How the animal was slaughtered is irrelevant.

Link to British vet associations take on it.

birdsighland - labelling is one of the issues that needs to be resolved. It would make more sense and that is what the muslim and jewish sides of the argument are asking for... this meat is kosher, this meat is halal, this meat is stunned, this meat was not stunned, etc. Not sure how that would fit on many packets!

Personally, I haven't unwittingly eaten horse, bottlenecker. I can say that 100%. I have knowingly eaten horse and would like to be able to purchase it. I don't buy factory farmed meat, haven't done so in years. We are fairly meat frugal - I used to be veggie! When we by meat we buy a little bit of local, well produced meat.

But those are my choices, made without all of this DM hype and scaremongering. I am not sure who it was who posted about 'muslimisation' but that it was posted at all shows how real a threat it is to some people!

Seriously? Secular meat?

Everything and I mean everything in our cultural has got some religious bent. Most of it we accept as cultural now. Other than the animal welfare issue which is important... access to secular meat just seems pathetic.

Sorry, it's a link to their take on stun /non stun. Not halal v non halal.

I just think it's very cruel to not stun an animal. I don't really care if it's halal and most places sell halal. I don't care if I subsidise mosques, or churches, or any other places of worship. For me, its the ethic. I've probably eaten it and it's not tasted any differently. I do not have a set religion as I class myself as eclectic, so I don't really care if it's free range, halal, kosher, or anything. It's food, I like food. I work in an area which is predominantly Asian and eastern European and I get my food from an indian woman. She says that she gets a lot of complaints from muslim customers who say she is disgusting for selling bacon. She caters for English people and sells a lot of indian cuisine too.

I literally don't understand why those 200 Subway stores didn't just put the bacon separately to accommodate. I read that even in muslim countries they sell non-halal meat (and even pork) at different stalls so muslim customers don't have to go near them. Don't know if it's true but I can believe it!

herc it isn't irrelevant. DO you want a painful death or to go in your sleep?

I'd like to think that people thinking that way would lead towards vegetarianism/veganisim but I think it would most likely lead to people saying fuck it and doing whatever they can get to the cheapest meat no matter the consequences.

Welsh lamb should do a roaring business. With every cloud...

There still seems to be some misunderstanding re stunning - most Halal meat IS stunned!

So is it just the prayer that is at issue here?

Nomama

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you personally, I was trying (badly) to say all this press about Halal meat and people being upset when many will be eating meat from all sorts of dubious sources.