To think that the timing of Gerry Adam's arrest does stink a bit?

[ClubName]

I despise the man and hope they have enough on him to let him rot, throw away the key etc

But, whatever they have it's not new (not new this week anyway) and I can see why he and his supporters think the timing of his arrest is political.

More importantly, unless he does end up in prison for a long time (which sadly I doubt) this whole business is just going to enhance his popularity and build the case that the PSNI aren't impartial

But in 1969 at the start of the "Troubles" the Easter Rising has happened 50 years previous, the War of Indepence and the Civil War were in living memory. If you believe that in those 40- 50 years people should have learned from those events and moved on then why are we discussing a 42 year old murder?

*apologies for the piss poor spelling. This really is an interesting thread

My family were Irish, not invaders. I still have an Irish surname. My family were drove out by the Irish, from what I gave been led to believe, and have spent their whole life in England being petrified to be seen as Irish because of prejudice
I find it bloody depressing if I am honest with you

Well, from my point of view I really was referring to things hundreds of years ago. I think the War of Independence etc are too raw to fall into that category.

I did have relatives killed in ww1 and ww2. The difference between the Easter rising and the Jean McConville case are that this was the abduction and murder of an entirely innocent catholic woman, with her body hidden for years and years. And the people that did this may well still be alive. She wasn't out taking part in a demonstration and accidentally caught up in the crossfire. She was taken from her house, in front of her children and shot in the back of the head, and then mutilated. How can anyone say that those that did that should go unpunished as it was actually a war and this would help win independence for nationalists?

I think that the PSNI questioned him as they should and released him due to lack of evidence.
It was never going to be an appropriate time to arrest him in the eyes of his supporters

I'm glad to see that they will arrest anyone in the pursuit of justice however shaky a concept that is given some of the Rule of Law decisions in Norn Iron.
I feel very sorry for Jean MCConville and her family and for all the families whose lives were interrupted or destroyed by terrorism

How can anyone say that those that did that should go unpunished as it was actually a war and this would help win independence for nationalists?

There were similar incidents during the War of Independence. People were disappeared, bodies have never been found. Teenagers killed. Vicious sectarian rioting in Belfast. Yet most people have no problem in accepting the conflict between 1919-21 as a 'war' that helped win independence for some nationalists in Ireland.

*The British army were nothing more than cowardly murderers in the north, I can assure you.

So again a lot of similarities.*

The IRA killed far more civilians than the army did. 60% of the dead were killed by republicans, 30% by loyalists and 10% by British security forces.

One of my husband's 'cowardly murdering' deeds was attempting to put out a chimney fire in a Catholic woman's house. She was terrified of the fire but even more scared of the IRA who would have lynched her if she'd let a soldier put out her fire.

Janine- we live in a civilised society. That's the bottom line. Lots of things were deemed acceptable years ago but as we progress we realise that it is no longer the case. It is no longer the case that many of those in NI will turn a blind eye recent atrocities.

To recent atrocities!

How can anyone say that those that did that should go unpunished

Who has said that??

The IRA killed far more civilians than the army did. 60% of the dead were killed by republicans, 30% by loyalists and 10% by British security forces

So because the stats are lower it's not as bad?

Do you want to tell that to the victims' families?

This distinction between 'war' and 'terrorism' is highly problematic, in my view.

Abra1D your stats are off if you're talking about civilian deaths and casualties. Loyalists killed more civilians than Republicans and given the fact that many people in NI believe that there was widespread collusion between loyalists Paramilitaries and the British Security Forces much of that civilian casualty rate is attributed by some to the Army.

I think this is going to be my last post on this thread because some posters are just not getting what I am saying. My mums family came here in the plantation period, were given landd and prospered and all was good for them until my great grandfather converted and then they lost everything. My dads family were some of those who had land taken from them, who were treated as sub human by an invading state. Everything that went on has a direct result to feelings today, twenty, fifty, a hundred years ago. To disregard it as that happened centuries ago is like saying that about slavery. Rememberance is important so that such things can never be repeated. We would be appalled if that happened now,and rightly so.
So with that in mind we must move on. It is not forgetting what happened but it is forgiving. I am sure that most people feel sorrow for what their nation has done, most people here feel sorrow for the bloodshed. Peace is what has been agreed and we have to strive to keep it. Learn not to see each other as the enemy but as three nations upholding peace.

I don't think war is right either in many cases. I personally go by the views of natural law that you shouldn't take ANYONEs life. Therefore all paramilitary activity is in my opinion wrong.

But you distinguished between 'real' war and (presumably) illegitimate war. Who decides whether wars are legitimate or not? It's such a statist view of things.

I gave my definition of war. Taking things into your own hands and engaging in armed conflict is not the correct way to deal with a wrong. For example- punishment beatings are rife in NI. Is that justifiable as those doing the punishing think they are fighting a 'war' on drugs? There needs to be a formal definition of acceptable armed conflict or we could justify many acts.

Maybe you'll answer the question I posed upthread, then: 'what was the way to deal with it?'

I can't make out if people are being deliberately obtuse or not!

I didn't suggest disregarding it because it happened centuries ago, what I meant is that its a lot easier to say 'look, that was terrible, but...' when no one in living memory actually remembers it.

You have to go back quite far before this is the case. My father is in his 80s and feels quite bitter because his father was intimidated off his family farm in a border area of NI by death threats (including his whole family, including children, being lined up against the farmhouse wall in the middle of the night and told they were going to be shot) by Republicans in the 1920s. The worst thing for him was that the perpetrators were people who were neighbours, who he thought were friends. It meant that my father was raised with a mentality of 'don't trust "them" because they might say they are your friends, but they'll turn on you when it suits them'.

Now, to me, this is an interesting, albeit upsetting, piece of family history. To my father, it feels very personal, even though it's now 90 years ago, and although it happened before he was born, his parents and siblings experienced it.

Its much easier to tell people they need to move on than it is to actually move on.

The best way to deal with what? To get a United Ireland or deal with the discrimination?

Either, actually. Although I think your original post referred to 'discrimination about jobs and housing'.

Discrimination in jobs and housing has already been dealt with, there has been a lot of legislation in place for about 30 years at least to try to stamp out discrimination in the jobs market. My whole working life I've had to fill out detailed questionnaires with every job application I've made, providing information on whether I'm perceived to belong to the Catholic or Protestant community.

Well, I believe that they should have dealt with in the same way that other groups who have been discriminated against have! By campaigning and using the law! I don't see how Catholics being discriminated against would be any different to woman/ethnic minorities/ disabled/ gay people campaigning for equal rights?