To think that the timing of Gerry Adam's arrest does stink a bit?

[ClubName]

I despise the man and hope they have enough on him to let him rot, throw away the key etc

But, whatever they have it's not new (not new this week anyway) and I can see why he and his supporters think the timing of his arrest is political.

More importantly, unless he does end up in prison for a long time (which sadly I doubt) this whole business is just going to enhance his popularity and build the case that the PSNI aren't impartial

No, you've missed the point, PigletJohn. The point is that the Old IRA are recognised by the Irish government as the first legitimate army of the state.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'that sort of war' - few colonial conflicts of the 20th century fit into that framework.

Thanks for the link Janine, will have a read.

If you knew what you were talking about, Piglet which you don't, you would know that the old IRA was the first state army.

it was not that sort of war?

It was not what sort of war?!

X post with Janine

And, btw, the distinction of ROI was only necessary because of British Invasion.

Im in England and grew up in the 70s and 80s watching news coverage of some of these events and I just wanted to say ive learnt a lot by reading this thread. I just wanted to convey my sympathies and support to anyone affected by these events.

at the sexual abuse of Adams niece being ignored especially when you factor in that had she become pregnant she was living in a country that would have refused her an abortion.

Janine, do you perhaps think that the government of the Republic of Ireland permits IRA gunmen to roam around the Republic, killing people?

Do you imagine that the government of the Republic of Ireland, or anywhere else, considers the IRA to be the Army of the Republic of Ireland?

PigletJohn I'll say it again: the Irish government recognises the old IRA as the first army of the state The Irish Defence Force's website might help the penny to drop for you.

Do you share Walters view that the people murdered by the IRA were in fact killed by the Irish Army, because they are the same thing?

Jaysus, Piglet, are you being deliberately obtuse or do you just not get it?

Based on what I've seen on this thread, that doesn't appear to be Walter's view. She merely has pointed out that the old IRA are recognised BY THE IRISH GOVERNMENT as the FIRST ARMY OF THE STATE, the army that fought to establish the state. The Irish Defence Forces themselves indicate this on their own website.

That's exactly my point Piglet John. It There is a huge difference between a war between two nations and a 'war' such as in NI of one ruling nation and a very small percentage of militants trying to break free. The Irish Government have in no way backed what the PIRA have been doing from the 1970s onwards. To say otherwise is nonsense and shows that people who believe that it was a real war have simply been taken in by Gerry Adams and his motley crews slick PR machine. Some might say brain washed.

I would accept that the people killed by the IRA between 1916 and 1922 were in fact killed by the Irish Army because they were the same thing.

Do you share Walters view that the people murdered by the IRA were in fact killed by the Irish Army, because they are the same thing?

Wtf?!

Everything surrounding this is politicAl
Everything surrounding ni is political
Then there were and are normal people who have had to leave Ireland, nothing to do with it anyway, who have had to deny being Irish for the rest of their lives
It makes me sick

scarlett at least you've acknowledged that the PIRA were freedom fighters

Was the War of Independence a "real war"?

God almighty the monochronistic and simplistic views on this thread are so depressing.

It's rather laughable that those who think it might be slightly more complicated than 'IRA = bad, British state = good' are somehow 'brainwashed' by the slick SF PR machine. Especially when the posters who are tossing around those accusations appear to have a less than complete grasp of the history of the island of Ireland.

What counts as a 'real war', scarlettsmummy?

Sorry but it's not simplistic for my , as they were/are Irish but I am not prepared to post any more on the thread about it

A war is open and declared conflict between the armed forces of two nations. Very different to the PIRA, a bunch of cowardly murderers.

The British army were nothing more than cowardly murderers in the north, I can assure you.

So again a lot of similarities.

I am not disputing that the British Government did very bad things- Bloody Sunday being a good example. But that doesn't mean that that the PIRA were engaged in a war.

I have studied a lot of Irish history, including at degree level, so whilst I'm not claiming to be some world renowned expert, I have a good understanding of what has gone on here over hundreds of years. That's just to pre-empt anyone jumping in to tell me that I clearly have never read a history book.

So, there are a few points I want to make. Firstly, I fully accept that Ireland was taken over by a hostile state, hundreds of years ago. And terrible atrocities were committed. But I also don't think that 'well, they started it by invading' is particularly helpful. These were things that occurred hundreds of years before the people now living here were even born. Personally I see a big difference between accepting and apologising for things that happened outside of living memory, and asking people who are suffering every day to just accept that they were the victims of terrorism due to the crimes of their ancestors, and suck it up.

So the problem for a huge number of the population is that they are viewed, both by some people within Ireland, and internationally, as being occupiers, as still being representative of a hostile nation. But they were born here, their families have been here for hundreds of years. So where do they belong? Who wants them? No one really. If you asked them, most of them probably wish their ancestors had just saved them the hell of living here by staying put in Scotland or England and saving the entire nation a lot of trouble.

The other thing that always grates with me is that the IRA claim to be an army, fighting a legitimate military campaign. Except for the fact that if one of their members were ever killed, there was uproar because they were suddenly claimed to be a civilian who had been ruthlessly killed whilst going about their day to day life. Its the hypocrisy that sticks in my throat.

Well said treacle. I was thinking something similar when asked my thoughts on the Easter Rising, and whether it was terrorism or freedom fighting. My first thought was that it was an event in history from 100 years ago that we should learn from and move on.

My first thought was that it was an event in history from 100 years ago that we should learn from and move on

Which would be staggeringly insulting to the grandchildren of the people who died in it.

Or should we just tell WW1 and 2 veterans to get overt themselves and move on?