To think that the timing of Gerry Adam's arrest does stink a bit?

[ClubName]

I despise the man and hope they have enough on him to let him rot, throw away the key etc

But, whatever they have it's not new (not new this week anyway) and I can see why he and his supporters think the timing of his arrest is political.

More importantly, unless he does end up in prison for a long time (which sadly I doubt) this whole business is just going to enhance his popularity and build the case that the PSNI aren't impartial

MrsMaturin, the charge isn't that he was there, it's that he ordered it. Whether he did or not, I don't know but he was released without charge, so I guess they did not have enough evidence.

Having been arrested, I would have presented myself at a police station if I knew it was imminent - an arrest follows certain legal forms and is a very embarrassing procedure. Photos of him being cuffed, surrounded by burly coppers in stab vests and stuck in the back of a police van are the sort of thing he would have wanted to avoid. I can imagine them on posters against him!

Suspect he got tipped off an arrest was likely and presented himself at the police station to avoid it. I've known people who did that and it was the same motivation - get it over and done with, and jump before you are pushed.

Thats very insightful Mrs and yes I agree. You are posting my thoughts exactly. I grew up with my grandmother trying to prove her son was murdered and she unfortunately died before it was proven. Our family will never see any of the soldiers brought to justice but that is something we must make peace with. Too many lives have been taken already and imho we must lay these ghosts to rest for the greater good no matter how much it sticks in our throats.

I'm sorry for what you must have seen treacle. I remember being shocked when somebody I was at university with talked about being searched in the street. Totally alien to my experience growing up in England of course. Bottom line is though - the crimes of the past on both sides WILL destroy the present because there is so much (understandable) anger and pain. Peace will not come if each case is pursued. It's impossible. I think a line has to be drawn and an acceptance offered that that is not justice but it's all that can be done.

Bruthas there was a traditional and hierarchical brigade structure in the IRA in 1972 - it wasn't reorganised until 1976. There were OCs for each battalion in a recognisably para-military structure. Not sure that his age or qualifications (what qualifications do you need to be in the IRA?) mitigate against him, either. By 1972 McGuinness was second in command in Derry, aged just 21.

I'm not even necessarily talking about pursuing every individual case. Although frankly this one, and all of the disappeared, are stand out cases because they are so horrific, so cruel. It's just the general sentiment that this man is a great peacemaker and those of us who always lived in peace are hate filled backward looking bigots that really really hurts.

Actually I think the authorities would love not to have to deal with this. Martin McGuinness dined with the Queen at Windsor Castle last month ffs. We are in full 'normalise' mode. But clearly people have made statements thT have to be investigated so I don't see that the PSNI had much choice

He's vile and so is MM and I'd love to see the McConville family get justice but I also want the peace sustained. Very tricky and delicate.

I am absolutely certain that nobody here is calling you a bigot etc treacle. I also think GA's claim to great peacemaker status is one history will record with a raised eyebrow. For peace to work though there has to be a feeling on all sides that things which do not seem right or fair must be accepted.

no, I didn't mean that anyone here was calling me a bigot. But it is certainly a sentiment that I have seen expressed.

Well said Treacle

My DM is Southern Irish and she has nothing but sympathy for the people of NI. Murder of an innocent "civilian" is unacceptable, regardless of which side you are on.

and we have, as a nation, already accepted a lot. Martin McGuinness is Deputy First Minister for starters.

But some things are just too much to ask people to accept and we are now reaching that tipping point.

Not sure how the Queen controlled herself when she met McGuinness.

Well she decorated the soldiers involved in the Bogside massacre so she probably didnt need much self control.

Sinn Fein would like to see prosecutions for Bloody Sunday. But when the shoe is on the other foot and one of their members is called to account, suddenly the past is the past and we all have to move on.

This is the root of the frustration that so many people here feel.

I'm fine with prosecutions for Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy or whatever. The army are not above thd law. But fairs fair. A murder is a murder, and I don't think you can on one hand say 'prosecutions are needed' and on the other say 'it's all in the past'

I can't make up my mind what I think about all of this at all.

It doesn't seem realistic to me that the PSNI would have been allowed to go about this prosecution without some form of political clearance - but from who? Justice Minister David Ford? Higher up than that? But as was pointed out upthread, it doesn't fit with the normalisation mode which has been dominant for the past while.

On the other hand, I can see some merit in the argument that there are elements in the PSNI (contracted back in after being retired from the RUC) who are determined to 'get Adams'.

I can recognise that this has been a skilled piece of political theatre by Adams - particularly yesterday's press conference (all citizens' rights discourse, moving on from the past, we must never return to the dark days partnering himself firmly with Bobby Sands [another area on which there are 'enemies of the peace process']). Nice election boost, no doubt.

I hate whataboutery, but equally horrific (actually, to my mind, worse) crimes have been uncovered by, for instance, the Finucane inquiry and the Barron and Cory commissions - either no prosecutions forthcoming, despite a firm evidential basis, or no cooperation from the British state in handing over evidence whatever hasn't already been destroyed. There does seem to be some (politically motivated?) selectivity in deciding which historical crimes are taken forward for prosecution, and which aren't.

It's all a big mess.

'some things are just too much to ask people to accept'

Well that's the problem isn't it? Talking of the Queen - her husband's uncle and a child of the family together with an employee were killed by an IRA bomb. I imagine the Queen and Prince Philip did indeed ask themselves if Martin McGuinness at their table was too much to take.

And I agree about Bloody Sunday and other acts by the army. I don't think prosecutions in those cases should go ahead either.

I cannot understand why some people appear to think Adams should be above the law. If the police have cause to question anyone in relation to a crime, they should question that person. FFS. Political interference or fear of political inconvenience is what allowed Cyril Smith to get away with his disgusting crimes.

I hope it doesn't derail the peace process but I also hope the McConville family get the justice they have been denied for more than 40 years. Jean McConville's abduction and murder was cowardly and evil enough - designed to put extreme fear into the Catholic community, it would appear - but the IRA then dragged off her 11 year old son, to terrify him into not naming names. It brings a whole new depth to the concept of evil.

There is a crucial difference between terrorist (especially IRA) crimes and things like Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy and the Finucane inquiry. The former were investigated at the time; the latter were either not investigated at all or not investigated properly.

The McConville case wasn't well investigated at the time at all. Another reason why a prosecution is (unfortunately) a waste of time.

In the absence of some agreement on processes to be used in terms of dealing with investigations into all of the killings which took place, arrests/ investigations such as this will likely cause concerns to all sides.

Look up haas on this. Look at peter hains comments yesterday and then teresa villiers of last week - will the killers of joan connolly be charged- no

It is not as simple as the media frequently portray it.

As I have posted already my family have made peace with the fact that what is in the past must stay there. No good will come of prosecutions on either side. There is much complexities surrounding NI, and in the seventies and eighties much of it was personal memories and experience. Thankfully things are moving on and forgiveness is the key. Its not pushing things under the carpet or letting anyone away with anything, its doing what is best for the next generation so they can bring their children up without hate, fear and violence.

I don't expect the Queen to have a detailed knowledge of the Provisional IRA's command structures :) Maybe she was pleased that McGuinness wasn't involved in terrorist activities any more and that she could see him in a reception like that and know he wasn't thinking about good locations for bombs?

Sinn Fein asked for a truth and reconciliation commission like SA had. Without the threat of prosecution (even if Adams was prosecuted and found guilty, under the terms of the GFA he would serve two years at most - is that enough?) a truth and reconciliation commission could answer a lot of questions and mean that a lot of dead would be buried and many people would have answers.

It would only stir up a sense of injustice on both sides badteacher,thus completely undoing all that has been achieved. We must just keep moving forward.

Atrocities in the name of republicanism aside I will forever think he's utter scum for failing to tell the police that he knew his niece was being raped by her father, Adams' brother.

squoosh IIRC it was reported to the police years before but there was feeling that they were more interested in getting info on Gerry than on the actual abuse.