To be upset?

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Huge back story to this which I can't write now (crying) but will drip feed as and when (sorry!) is relevant.

General gist is that DH has a big brother who has many problems, never left home at 28, behaves terribly and has his family worried sick.

This came to a head again tonight when he went out at 4pm and has not yet come home. We live 4 hours away but MIL has been keeping DH updated.

DH has had a lot to drink tonight.

Through the course of a long argumentative conversation discussing how we would have dealt with the brother (we have this conversation every time something happens btw), DH ended up saying he thinks BIL has been an alcoholic and a drug addict since 13, and DH and his parents think that BIL will die before 35.

I said if you believe that, then you need to do something, you can't sit back and say that! He repeated it a few time and criticised me for saying I would do something (no idea what!).

But I got very very upset, I think this is so distressing, and can't imagine thinking this about my son or brother. So I'm upstairs in bed crying, he is down in the sofa very very angry.

I am pregnant, hormonal and have a one year old, and some of the stuff DH says scared me that this will happen to my kids. He has said that I've made it all about me - I really haven't but can't help finding it distressing.

AIBU to be so upset?

Really hope there is still traffic this time of night as I need someone to talk to :(

What a sad situation. Your right he does need some help. Have the family spoken to their GP?
Not undermining the situation at all, but being pregnant has probably made you feel more emotional (congrats by the way, I am too so completely get the extra tears thing!)
And him having drunk a bit is really not going to help, as silly as it sounds, I'm sure things will feel better in the morning.
Really hope you can get some sleep, big hugs

Ah love, sorry you're so upset. Your DH's alcohol and your pregnancy hormones won't be helping matters, but there is underlying hurt, worry and fierce love here.

Please don't work this up further by projecting BIL's situation onto your own DC. It will be a long long time before that is something to worry so much about.

This is about BIL and how your DH and PIL deal with the situation. I actually think you're right - if they really believe he is an addict and killing himself, they should be trying to help him stop and not enabling him. However I have zero experience of this so will stop at that and suggest they (or you) look at Alcoholics/Narcotics Anon websites etc for advice.

Regarding your argument with DH. I believe talking us the only answer. You need to properly understand how each other feels. Perhaps better to wait until he's sober (and over the hangover) though. Could you go out for dinner without DC for a heart to heart?

Hope you get some sleep.

I personally think that there's little anyone can do until BIL accepts that he need help. Addicts (to anything) can't be forced into getting help. They've got to want to.

Don't worry yourself about your little one. Look after him or her (that includes now, while pregnant) as best you can which includes trying not to get yourself worked up over things you can't control.

Congrats by the way,

Disclaimer: I'm a worrier too so I get why you're fretting.

Drunk people are not rational. It's like trying to discuss things with the wind. Wait til he's sobered up & have a proper conversation

Try to get some sleep. You're very tired & a bit overwrought

Congratulations on your pg

What is the problem about a 28 year old being out at 3 in the morning? I'm not getting why there needs to be status updates from your mil.

Why does this lead to your husband getting very drunk- or is that a separate issue?

Ah, baby is finally asleep after night feed. Goodnight OP.

But you can't put the responsibility of your husbands older brother being a screwed up individual.

I'd be really upset if someone said to me that I was not a good mother because my sister was off the rails.

Your dh is probably both worrying about his brother, worrying about his mother and running is the background the responsibility of becoming a father for the second time.

You have now tangled up in his head the rubbish brother with your dh's ability as a father. These surely have nothing to do with each other. Your child is not going to become an alcoholic just because his paternal uncle is one.

My own dh comes from a family where his own brother is a hopeless loser.Like really bad. It has NOTHING to do with how my dh parents. In fact he's good at it.

YABU but you are pregnant so extra emotional. I think you should go and talk to your dh.

Thank you for replying.

I have watched my in laws do nothing over the years to help their eldest (accepting of course there is stuff which goes on behind closed doors I have no idea of) which has helped bring him to this point. They completely enable him, which of course if I suggest that to DH (drunk or sober) he bites my head off for implying his parents are less than perfect.

Fwiw, I don't believe BIL has been an addict since 13, though I do believe he needs help now. I get sneered at/criticised/told I'm being patronising if I suggest things like a GP, aa or na.

You are very right that talking to DH while pissed isn't rational. I said if I felt that way about my son/sibling, I would start by asking my GP for help. DH replied with "well it's great for you that you know how to make it all better" - completely not hearing me. I was BU to even talk to him, but I didn't realise how pissed he was then. My problem is with DH, not BIL or PIL.

It is very difficult to hear that DH's family all discuss as a matter of fact that BIL won't live much longer. (It's also very dramatic and I don't necessarily believe it). It makes me scared for my DH's parenting skills and how he might choose to deal with our children when they are older.

I also find it upsetting that I am married to someone who could believe his brothers life is at risk and just accept it. It's come as a shock - there has been no build up to this level of drama.

I can't get past the fear that DS and future DD will end up like this. :(

I know part of me is AIBU - I was a bit of a naughty teenager, DH was a very naughty teenager, and I didn't grow up here so have no idea how to raise a child here safely and successfully. DH doesn't help reassure me though, he seems to think that his past and that of his brother is normal.

I am so confused right now, I can't even put my finger on the many things I'm upset about. I think a big thing is that this has really made me look at DH differently.

Caitlin - BIL lives at home and there has recently been another big drama about him fucking up all the Internet devices in the house, so the family are not getting on. This came a month after he 'left home ' to live in a homeless shelter (lasted a night). He has form for worrying his parents.

So he said he was going out at 4pm to use and Internet cafe and would be home soon. Taking into account his history, they are worried he hasn't comeback. Not for me to judge but it's probably justified. MIL is talking to DH for support.

The drinking thing for DH... Technically a separate issue, but this is also how he chooses to deal with stressful or upsetting situations. It has been a problem in the past, but I've not mentioned it to him tonight (red flag to a bull).

Ice - goodnight, hope baby gives you a lie in.

Savoy - I didn't mention DH in his capacity as a father or mention our children, that is just why I'm upset and left the room. Never shared it with him while he is this angry. I wouldn't say he was a bad father ever.

Nor do I put the responsibility for BIL on him - it was more that I was shocked that if he truly thinks he brother will die, that he can say it so matter of factly, and also that neither him nor PIL will attempt to do anything about it.

If I felt like that about my brother, I would be begging my parents to seek help, doing research and directing them to helpful avenues.

If your BIL is an addict and has been since teenagehood (maybe not 13, but 15/16 can be quite likely), the closest people to them can get quite worn down by it, ending up in a dull acceptance - the desire to help them as been burned out by bad experiences.

There is nothing they can do to stop him if he doesn't want to stop. No intervention, resistance, denial, threats etc will work - he'll just leave and end up somewhere unsafe. So they aren't choosing to enable him (unless they supply him and encourage him to drink/use), only do their best to keep him safe.

Our close family friend has an adult daughter who is drinking her life away, I would doubt she will live much longer as she indulges in such risky behaviours - massive excessive drinking and ending up places where she doesn't know where she is, how she got there, the people she's with... driving drunk (has lost licence, but still drives if she can get keys etc from housemates or relatives), and she also has tried to suicide on a few occassions. I feel it is a matter of when, not if, for her - and anything her family tries to do is never enough to make her want to stop.

Your DH will behave very differently to your children, but using alcohol as a crutch will teach your children bad coping skills with life's crises... and that is why I fear alcoholics run in families - not only genetics, but seeing others use alcohol to dull emotional pain and cope with stress.

I understand why you're upset, but sadly I really don't know what anyone can do to prevent a 28 year old adult from making their own choices, however damaging they might be. H

They can't force him to see a gp or to stop drinking. They can stop facilitating that drinking by asking him to leave their home, but can't curb the alcohol problem without the brother acknowledging the problem and agreeing to tackle it.

Maybes they think if the leave him 'til he reaches the conclusion he needs help by himself, maybes then he'll start to sort himself out? I've heard a few folk say that stopped drinking/using while it was still their idea, not what a dr told them.
Just because your DH is like this with his brother - is he the older brother - doesn't mean he'll be like that as a dad with your children. Siblings are always the siblings and we can forget they are just normal people too. My brother thinks I'm still 14 and sometimes treats me like he knows best. Makes me want to re enact our knock down punch fest from when I was 14. But this time, I know I can take him

It is easy to be matter of fact about someone's death whilst they're still here and there is still hope for recovery; having been in a similar situation where it was regularly said that my Aunt would never live to see 40 due to her drinking, it still came as a massive shock and upset when she did die (at 41). Knowing that intellectually someone is endangering themselves and the realities of the situation are two completely different things.

Realistically, if DH's brother doesn't want to change or doesn't see there is a problem, there isn't a great deal his family can do. I can see why you're upset by this, and you are not being unreasonable in the slightest, however I would caution against making DH feel like he should be doing more - if the worst does happen, he will potentially feel massively guilty and I suspect has tried reaching out to him in the past.

I think you are being unreasonable OP. Presumably your DH has been dealing with his brother for a long time, long before you joined the family (?) I think your comment "I have watched my in laws do nothing over the years to help their eldest" is very harsh and short -sighted. Presumably they didn't anticipate their son growing up to have addiction issues and still be living with them at 28.

My own brother has had some very big problems over the last 10 years and is still (at 29) living with my now quite old (late 60's) & not very well-off parents. I assure you it is extremely stressful for them and for my sister & I. If my DH started lecturing me about caring for him and having hysterics about it I would be mightily pissed off.

Having come from a truly dysfunctional family I think you are far too involved and probably adding to your Dhs stress with it all. It's his family and with many years of this before he was with you he knows the history and the dynamics and how it all works. Having both parents as alcoholics and even having had a stint as a heavy drinker myself I can safely say there is absolutely nothing you can do to change anything unless they want to change themselves.

Let dh get on with it however he feels is best and just listen and support him but don't judge how he deals with it or not as you perceive it. It's not your responsibility.

DH is 27 and this has all really kicked off since he left home (5 years) hence the statements about "drug addict since 13" are a bit dramatic. I've been on the scene and known the family for 10 years.

They enable BIL in that whenever all is well, drinking is one of the things they do together as a family. I don't think that is healthy if they believe him to be an alcoholic. They also let him live rent and bill free without encouraging him to get a job.

DH is still insistent this morning that his oarents are too old (55) to have to deal with this and it's pointless to help BIL. I really hope you are all correct and he wouldn't give up on his own DC so easily. I can actually see this attitude causing serious issues in our relationship.

Oh, I didn't have hysterics btw, I got upset at a drunk person insisting that their brother (who I care about ) would be dead soon... Is that an abnormal reaction?

I just can't believe they have all given up on BIL without attempting rehab, mental help, AA or NA. He hasn't even had addiction issues confirmed, just assumed albeit probably correctly.

I'm only involved when DH chooses to tell me stuff btw, and I try and support him as any partner would. I think I will in future have to call the conversation to a halt at the start though regardless of how unsupportive that might appear. Unfortunately I can't handle the concept that they are sitting waiting for a loved one to die without at least trying to change things. It is upsetting to me.

I think if anything bad does happen to BIL, DH will feel horrendously guilty if he hasn't tried to help. Hence my encouragement that "if you believe he is going to die soon due to his behaviours, surely you (collective you) need to try anything."

Perhaps that is wrong, too involved and too judgemental. It is very very hard to see this situation clearly and how to act as 'part of the family' but not the main family. Especially when I'm an easy outlet for DH's anger.

Again, thank you for all responses though, they are very helpful.

I am still finding it distressing to look at DS this morning and know that if he chooses the wrong path, his dad might give up on him. I just couldn't do it.

It is heartbreaking looking at an innocent 1 year old, who hasn't gone wrong yet, knowing that once BIL was like that. As was DH. Surely I'm not alone in being scared of what my DC could become?

Sometimes I think you just need to be there to listen. I don't think you get how difficult and draining it is to deal with long term problems like this. There is no magic pill to fix them and it sounds like they all use alcohol as a crutch.

I feel sad for your husband that you would halt any future conversations because they don't go the way you want. I wouldn't like to be in a marriage like that.

I think you are being a bit of a drama queen slithy. It is very hard, but harder for your DH than for you - especially with you accusing him of being a shit dad.

Lunar - how can me discussing it with DH be a help at all when literally anything I say is wrong (scapegoat for anger) plus unfortunately at the moment possibly due to hormones, I find it upsetting they are saying he is going to die?

They do also all use alcohol as a crutch which makes these conversations difficult. It's nothing to do with the conversation going the way I want, I'm not controlling. But equally being shouted at at 3am with a sleeping baby isn't reasonable.

How can I be supportive? Agree with him that BIL will die and can't be helped?

I thought it was supportive to suggest that maybe all was not lost and that the as yet untried avenues of GP, NA and AA could be attempted before giving up.

When did I accuse him of being a shit dad Gennz? In fact I have said the opposite, I think you've misread my posts. That would be a terrible thing to say.

This conversation about BIL went on for about 6 hours btw. I try my best to listen and offer helpful ideas when asked to. Sadly upon reflection I think this is purely so DH can get mad at someone, since he can't get mad at his brother or his parents.

It was literally 6 hours of bad mouthing his brother, culminating in the whole will be dead thing. I don't know how to support that.

Surely sometimes being a good wife isn't just blind agreement? Surely you have to take a more difficult line and say - why not try this? It's not like they want him to die.

Like I said I've watched this car crash for about 4/5 years now. It wasn't so bad before. I'm not just offering opinions based on nothing, I have seen this.

Should I just accept that they are at the end of their tethers, and that BIL can't be helped? It goes against everything I am as a person and a mother, but I will do that if that's what is best for DH.

I just know without a shadow of doubt that if they are right and BIL dies early, there will be regrets for the rest of DH's life if he did nothing.

You can try and help an addict from now until Kingdom come, but you will be pissing in the wind unless they really want to stop

and some people enable addicts without realising,, it's a very easy trap to slip into

sometimes you just have to let them be, you cant help someone who refuses to accept it. I too would be angry if someone kept saying help him, but offering no positive suggestions. Gps are useless in this situation they really don't want to know. There are support grouos for families tho to help families in their behaviour not the addicts. If someone wants to kill themselves, they will. Its too simple for you to say get help, there is a very long process leading up to that point. It's devastating for families but realistically they are helpless

Not suicide. They just apparently believe his destructive behaviour will lead to him falling into the canal or something.

I also didn't just say get help, I said I have no idea but we could look online and see what help there is, like NA etc. I also suggested that PIL could do with the support you mention as they have been through the mill with this.

Bear in mind, they have done NOTHING. Surely you try something first? Am I completely off base here? It is confirmed they have done nothing, they have told DH.

Remembering of course that when BIL doesn't piss them off, they all sit and share a bottle of whisky of a Friday night. It doesn't seem like the right course of action with someone you believe is an alcoholic?

I've not shared that last thought btw. Most of what I'm typing on this thread hasn't been said out loud.