To be upset?

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Huge back story to this which I can't write now (crying) but will drip feed as and when (sorry!) is relevant.

General gist is that DH has a big brother who has many problems, never left home at 28, behaves terribly and has his family worried sick.

This came to a head again tonight when he went out at 4pm and has not yet come home. We live 4 hours away but MIL has been keeping DH updated.

DH has had a lot to drink tonight.

Through the course of a long argumentative conversation discussing how we would have dealt with the brother (we have this conversation every time something happens btw), DH ended up saying he thinks BIL has been an alcoholic and a drug addict since 13, and DH and his parents think that BIL will die before 35.

I said if you believe that, then you need to do something, you can't sit back and say that! He repeated it a few time and criticised me for saying I would do something (no idea what!).

But I got very very upset, I think this is so distressing, and can't imagine thinking this about my son or brother. So I'm upstairs in bed crying, he is down in the sofa very very angry.

I am pregnant, hormonal and have a one year old, and some of the stuff DH says scared me that this will happen to my kids. He has said that I've made it all about me - I really haven't but can't help finding it distressing.

AIBU to be so upset?

To be honest and from the daughter of an alcoholic, you cannot help them unless they help themselves.

I never offer my parents alcohol and I try to go to places where there isn't alcohol served.

I used to have family members demand I speak to my parents and get it sorted out. My auntie was shocked when I stood up and said "Do you really think I haven't tried? But unless they want to help themselves, I can't help them!"

It's hard to watch the road to destruction but sometimes walking away is the best thing you can do, as constant appeals to help themselves fall on deaf ears.

slithy - yanbu to feel upset, but you need to take a massive step back for your own sake.

I've been in your dh's position for the last 25 years, and you wish, you pray, that you can just "get them some help" but it really isn't that easy. It's taken me years and years to realise that I can't help him. I've tried, my parents have tried, my sisters have tried. But ime, 'help' that the family can give, ends up enabling their behaviour more often than not. You cannot just 'get help' for someone that is not ready to seek it themselves. Would that you could.

Your dh has not given up on his brother - but he is not his brother's keeper either. He has probably come to the same conclusion I have. I have now taken a step back, and told my db that I will not give him any more money. Quite frankly, my marriage was suffering from the level of intervention I was engaging in - agonising family meetings, sorting out his financial crisis, writing his cv etc - were taking it's toll, and I have to put my family first.

I haven't seen him since. Or rather, he hasn't seen me. It hurts. My parents are still enabling his behaviour - which includes gambling, lying about having/getting jobs, alcoholism and drugs. It is heartbreaking - but my dh has been very supportive - and I have to say I would be devastated if he started to question my future parenting skills/treatment of my own children, as a result of this.

My brother died at 38 from alcohol.

The ripples outwards from his carcrash of a life have affected all of us - his sisters - and our own relationships. Trying to help him, trying to help our mother (he lived with her until his final ambulance journey when his liver disintegrated), endless, ultimately fruitless conversations...

Looking back, worrying about him and mum swallowed up years of my time and I'm eternally grateful that DP didn't just up and leave (he says he thought about it more than once).

My advice to someone else going through the same experience as a family would be to contact Al Anon, and to take their advice.

Best wishes to you and your family.

You can't judge unless you've been there for all of the conversations and throughout all of they years.

I've just lost a lovely childhood friend through alcoholism. You feel guilty and helpless watching them destroy themselves but that doesn't mean you aren't doing enough. You eventually realise that you can't control another adult who is determined to drink.

You'd be better off working out how you can better support your PILs and DH than turning it into an issue about you and your children.

What is your relationship like with your BIL? Do you ever spend time with him alone, when you could perhaps chat to him and let him know that you'd always be happy to help him get a job/get his life on track if he wanted you to. Obviously in a very non-judgmental way!!!

I've worked in addiction for over ten yearsand winnie is right.

Your husband and his family are probably distressed and frustrated because they're horribly aware of how little control they have over the situation and how little theycan do. You might have lived closely with the family for several years but this man is not your flesh and blood and I imagine your exhortations re interventions are seen as unhelpful. It's not as though they will be unaware of support avenues but they can't force a grown man to access them if he is red start.

If he is resistant, sorry.

Sorry - about the shit dad thing - I read you saying that you were crying about your DH possibly treating your DC the same in the future, and I thought you had said that to him, which I thought was a bit harsh.

I have an alcoholic brother. Its heartbreaking. I hate to say it but, you are being a bit u, though understandably as you are pg.
By telling your dh and il's they need to do something, all you are doing is fuelling any guilt they could feel if anything should happen.
I will never give up on my db, but you've to realise they cant do anything. Absolutely NOTHING if he doesnt want to help himself.

Yes it sounds like you made it all about you, hth

The thing is, they haven't tried, that's kind of my point. They are very open about not wanting to be bothered :(

I would understand if it had been a decade of fighting against these behaviours and giving up. But they are all just pissed off at him. DH in particular hasn't been involved as he hasn't been living there. They have said to DH there is no point in them suggesting AA/NA but not said why.

Equally there is a massive element of head in the sand - how can they despair that he is an alcoholic and then buy booze for them all to enjoy? Can anyone shed some light?

I haven't verbally questioned his parenting btw, just in my head thought "god what if he dismissed our son like that". Imagine your husband telling you that he thought your son would die within 5 years? That is all I was thinking after going to bed last night. I didn't tell DH I was thinking any if this - just said I was finding it tiring at 3am and going to bed. He chose to sleep on the sofa - he does when pissed.

Aj - I have on a small level, it's a big secret in the family about his problems and I'm not allowed to know - PIL told DH not to tell me. But I have always offered help with job hunting and cvs etc, and repeat this when I see him. I don't see him alone as they live 4 hours away, so we visit as a family.

This is the first time I have offered any practical advice btw, as this is the first time I've been told that he is an addict who is going to be dead soon. Before this it was just discussing the individual problem scenarios.

I really appreciate all of you sharing your very difficult stories, and I'm so sorry that you have suffered with a family member and in some cases lost them

I will try to just listen to DH and not project his family dynamics into my family. It is hard. For all of you who have had a relationship suffer due to dealing with a difficult family member - well I think that's the direction we are heading in. Not so much due to DH's dealings with his brother, but his approach to me. I will try to get past this.

Cheers mac, I didn't mention my feelings once other that using the first person to say "I would try this".

It was the sheer selfishness I had in crying which apparently made it all about me. Good to know DH was being honest.

I've also never ventured an opinion to my PIL on this subject. Nor will I.

In response to a very angry DH telling me that his brother would die, I said surely you need to do something - off the back of him telling me they hadn't. That was the extent of my opinions.

I thought (wrongly I am seeing, so thank you) that you try whatever help avenues are out there, and let them fail before then stepping back. I didn't realise that sometimes you can't even do that. I won't suggest anything again.

slithy, in my personal experience, all help - practical, emotional, financial has been thrown back in my face, sooner or later.

Apparently, during my last conversation with him - I "had a massive go at him and shouted at him." He's told the whole family this - and it's not true. I was very deliberately, and consciously, soft-voiced, calm and non-confrontational.

They buy alcohol to drink together because sometimes enabling and denial is easier. I have done the same.

You are being very unreasonable.

It scares the shit out of me everyday at the thought of having to bury my brother but i dont express this to people. Just because your dh doesnt talk about it & it looks like he is doing nothing doesnt mean that he doesnt care about his brother.

It is all very well saying you would contact GP, AA, NA but do you really think your BIL would happily go and see them and be instantly cured.

You sound very naive.

A much loved friend died at 33 from alcoholism. And having a loving girlfriend, who did the tough love bit and left him, and a loving sister and 2 parents who tried every single thing and broke their hearts over him didn't stop it happening. I utterly understand your upset but maybe dh is just being realistic in that he can't influence his behaviour?

I didn't say he doesn't care either.

I probably am very naive, why wouldn't I be. They were only suggestions made at 2am, completely off the back foot because DH hasn't told me in 5 years that it was this serious. There is also a good possibly it isn't, and that it was the booze talking.

But either way, these avenues exist and presumably work for some people. I (before this thread) didn't see the harm in suggesting them. Or the harm in suggesting the GP instead of BIL self medicating with online bought drugs. Or the harm in suggesting he contributes to the household with some of his jsa.

Surely there are some people out there who have been helped? How can PIL know unless they try?

How does one react correctly to being told completely out of the blue that BIL will die soon?

OP - I think you need to realise that suggestions of help at this stage are not helpful to your DH. Your dh will be feeling helpless, guilty, devastated.

Honestly, take it from someone who has lived through this for my whole adult life - there is nothing more irritating than someone suggesting AA, GP (or in my db's case Gamblers Anonymous) etc. It's like suggesting a sticking plaster for a bullet wound. Suggesting "doing something to help" is even worse - because your dh and his parents will be desperate to do just this. But what? - he's an adult, it's his life.

You cannot just make addicts seek help. The people who have been helped by these services have made the decision to seek help themselves.

I think your pregnancy hormones are playing a big part in this.

DH's behaviour was appalling too sabrina - this isn't a thread for me to be critical of my BIL or PIL - that was just the catalyst for DH's actions.

It is good to get these insights though, I won't mention the various help organisations again.

As the non addict trying to help DB, what did you suggest?

The trouble is that there is no avenue of help that will make a blind bit of difference if the person themselves doesn't want to stop/change.

The family may not have gone to the GP/AA etc. but presumably they have had conversations with BIL over the years that mean they know how open or resistant he is to the idea of change, and this is really the key component.

I have more than one young family member who are alcoholics/drug abusers, and yes, I do mention to my DH sometimes that it is likely they won't live long. Partly, this is a way of distancing and protecting/preparing myself because I know them intimately enough to know they are not willing to change, and may never be.

Sometimes your only hope is that they hit rock bottom and that turns them around. But after years of watching and waiting, you can also just shut down and disconnect, because it hurts, and you really are helpless.

There is no point setting anything in motion unless there is at least a glimmer of desire to change from the person themselves.

Thank you, you are all making this a lot clearer to me.

So when DH says things like he will die soon etc - how can I respond without antagonising him.

Clearly I don't make any suggestions! I've learned that one now.

But do I agree? Stay quiet? Say I'm sorry? No idea, this is new territory for me, and I have the disadvantage of only being told some years after they have been discussing this.

Also, for those of you with experience of family members and addiction.
Could you say that about your child? That they won't live another 5 years? Do any of you get scared that your child could go down that path?

I am in your DS's position. My Uncle is an alcoholic.

My DF goes through phases of trying to help and withdrawing completely. He has over the years: lent money, paid for treatment that hasn't worked, wasted many drunken nights discussing it, not slept, stressed about it, provided a place for him to stay, bought him booze, hidden booze, discussed him dying young, cried, laughed, drunk with him, and a million other things. None have worked and my uncle is still alive. Just. And that 'just' has been around for at least a decade. All of it made no difference.

Honestly, I would not wish this complex situation on anyone. It is awful. Please try not to judge the family. It just is the way it is and addiction has long tentacles that touch everyone in the family. The fact they spend so much time discussing it means they do care.

My DF's parenting of me has been affected by the situation with his brother, but not in the way you expect, he is thankful, proud and sentimental about his children. Sometimes he wasn't fully in the zone with us because of his brother and it has made him stressed and very short tempered. My DM has always accepted it for what it is and carried on raising us in the way she wanted. She always has been very factual about it, though for some reason we rarely talk to my DF about it. I think that has helped us.

I know you're pregnant but detaching is probably the way forward.

for everyone whose life is touched by addiction.

slithy you do need to take a step back YANBU for being upset and not-knowing what to say but you haven't been intimately in this situation for year, very close to someone who is addicted. And your BIL may well have started drinking at 13, you really don't know. High functioning alcoholics...you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell. I knew someone who could charm her students and colleagues and none were aware she was an alcoholic- she was that good at hiding it. It was only looking back over the year, you realise with hindsight just when it must have all started and are so very shocked that they hid it so well.

Have you tried saying to your DH 'that must be horrible for you to have in your mind all the time' and then see if he talks more. Why not say 'what makes you think he started at 13' when DH says, it's possible they may have recognised he had a problem in his late teens, saw the truth with hindsight and tried to get help. Perhaps by the time they met you they were burned out? Perhaps they were also very good at hiding it, it may be very embarrassing for them or they may be too proud.

No one had a clue my cousin was an aresol sniffer for years, everyone tried everything they could think of but eventually he went on to hard drugs and there was nothing anyone could do- that was when people realised. Addicts are very self-absorbed, they can't help it they're just fixated on their choice of poison and cant see past it. They don't see the destruction left in their wake and when people try to show them or push them to give up, that just pushes them more into their addition.

Having watched my DF I would not do as much for my DSis or DB as he has done. If it were one of my DC I would do, because I know my feelings for them would mean my heart rather than head would rule.

Do I worry about addiction for them? I believe there is a genetic pre-disposition to addiction. And I think I have it and so do my family. But I don't worry about it really, I worry more about the usual stuff friendships, them getting run over, them getting a job, whether they are happy. They may have a harder job to get there than others because of their genetics but I'm doing the best I can for them.

I will try saying that to DH if he raises it again Iwin, thank you.

I find it all scary - not least because DH is talking about his DB being an alcoholic while absolutely plastered himself and using booze as an emotional crutch. That is what scares me, that DC will see that as the norm.

DH also sees BILS life as more or less normal (other than the behavioural and addiction issues) e.g. Living at home at 28, no job, no responsibilities. He doesn't seem to see or want to see that they are all connected.

BIL definitely did start drinking at that age, as did DH and I, it was the norm where we grew up. However in between being a bad teenager and the last 5 years, he went to uni, had jobs and a gf, and generally was pretty normal. Things seemed to all go wrong later. Not saying it's not possible he was an addict all those years, but it seems unlikely - not least because gf wouldn't have tolerated it.

PIL do find it embarrassing hence not wanting me to know. Which I can empathise with. I do think it's unfair on DH burdening him with this stuff but not allowing him an outlet though.

I suppose my selfish side is saying, those tentacles you speak of tea, they are starting to touch us as well. Mainly due to how DH is dealing with it, but for whatever reason, last night/this morning we had to deal with a very angry, shouty, drunk DH. I assure you though I might have been naive and said the wrong things, I didn't deserve that reaction and it was ott.