to think my friend has a good argument for refusing to attend this job interview?

[listsandbudgets]

She's going anyway because even though she argued until she was in floods of tears, the job centre have told her that if she does not she'll have her benefits taken away.

She's strictly vegan and has been since her mid teens - she's now in her late 30s. She won't even wear leather shoes. They are sending her to be interviewed for a job in an abattoir Normally I'd say if people can work they should but surely she's got a good argument for not going for this job?

What on earth can she do? Will she be sanctioned if she lets them know her views during the interview and does her best not to get the job?

i accidentally took an admin job in an abatori my first job was typing in the number of chickens who died in the lorry on the way to the abbatoir.
So you aer not safe anywhere in the building.

All this debate is largely immaterial. As pointed out by Betrayed much earlier on in the thread, she has good cause to refuse to attend such an interview.

Adviser guidance published here (this is the internal guidance job centres must follow):

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/181439/response/445400/attach/html/4/FOI%204960%20LMCG%20Avail%20ASE%20Guidance.pdf.html

from which:

Restrictions because of religious or other belief
118. A claimant may restrict the type of work they are prepared to do, provided they can show they have reasonable prospects of employment, because of a sincerely held religious belief or conscientious objection.
119. They must explain why their religious or other belief affects the type of work they can do. For example:
 a vegetarian may object to working in an abattoir; or
 a person who follows a particular religion may object to taking employment which requires them to work on a day which is considered sacred.

So the key question is does the adviser know that the claimant is a vegan, and what does her Claimant Committment say about the type of jobs she is and is not looking for?

 should be a bullet point - the numbers have no relevance.

my db was tipped off by a local union rep with whom he had worked as a shop steward that if an employer had a bad reputation with employees etc to mention on application form and/or drop into the conversation at interview that he has been a shop steward/was fully trained on health and safety issues including COHSE etc and was 'eager' to share his expertise at the workplace and help them with any issues. Unlikely to hear back from them and could not be seen as obstructive or making himself unemployable

Shes bot being U. OTOH if she is a real animal lover, it will be educational and she can keep an eye out for animal welfare.

Nobody is FORCING her to go to the interview. It is only if she wishes to continue claiming off the state that she is obliged to go ie it is her choice. I don't think it U of the state to insist that a claimant takes the first legal job she is offered. Personally, as a vegetarian, I would campaign for abattoirs to be all made illegal but, as long as society says they are fine, then this jobseeker should do her best to get and keep the job.

As a student I had NO money, NO place to live and NO entitlement to any benefits. I took a job in an animal research laboratory where I had to kill rabbits as part of my role. I hated it. But you know what - I had no choice and I was grateful for the pay and the chance to work. If I wanted to eat and find a place to sleep then I needed money. The research went towards developing cancer drugs. Even as a vegetarian, I do not disapprove of people taking cancer drugs (not many vegans/vegetarians refuse drugs on the basis they are tested on animals). If this claimant lives in a society that condones meat eating, and if she is taking money off this society, then she has to take the job if it is offered. Beggars cannot be choosers.

section 34309 of JSa guidance as quoted earlier she should print that page and take it to JCP with her it's on page 80

I think that she is being forced to go to the interview if not going means that she will no longer be able to eat!

I fully sympathise - a zillion years ago when I was newly graduated and during a similar time of recession - I was a vegetarian animal rights activist with a degree in Politics - I was offered an interview at McD's by the Job centre as there was little else around at the time - I refused it and found myself a job in a shop until I saved up enough to go to London (where the streets are paved with gold etc.). In those days there wasn't a sanction imposed by the benefits system for non attendance at an interview set up through the job centre.

I think the options in this case are go to the interview and explain her situation and her unsuitability for the job will be obvious to her interviewers (unless they are sadists!) - or - make a stand at the job centre and risk benefit losses. She may have to get more creative in her job search and be proactive to disarm the Job centre's objections - i.e. "I don't want to go to that abbatoir interview , but look I have found myself an interview with this shop/ cleaning company/ temp agency.."

whatever5 not going to the interview does not necessarily mean she won't eat. It only means she will not be able to eat at society's expense when she is not prepared to contribute to that society. We have no idea of her independent financial means. JSA is not means tested - it depends only on actively jobseeking.

BTW I don't suppose there is anyone who would relish working in an abattoir but if people want the freedom to eat meat then somebody has to. I expect the majority of meat eaters would also find the thought nauseous and traumatic (answer btw is not to eat meat and to earn enough to support your ethical position without relying on the state).

Just out of interest, does anyone know how much workers get paid in an abattoir? Surely if it paid enough there would be plenty of people willing to do it.

Minimum wage for the temps, and it was in the midddle of nowhere so no public transport

Beyondraisinabledoubt- JSA is means tested (unless it's contributions based) so she if she doesn't claim she probably won't be able to meat. I agree that most people wouldn't like to work in an abattoir but it likely to be much much worse for a Vegan for obvious reasons.

I can't get worked up about the fact that she is claiming tax payers money as there aren't enough jobs to go around anyway so if she wasn't claiming job seekers allowance someone else would be. It's just not necessary to force people to do jobs that are strongly against their religious or moral beliefs.

Beyondraisinabledoubt- JSA is means tested (unless it's contributions based) so she if she doesn't claim she probably won't be able to meat.

Excuse typos!

Please read the thread before posting - OP's friend has cause not to attend because of her veganism and should tell her job centre adviser. She won't be forced to go and sanctioned if she doesn't. The only possible glitch will be if she hasn't told them and her Claimant Commitment states she'll do any job. Even then, if she explained the situation they would not force her to go.

Your friend has no choice but to attend the interview and act as if she wants the job should it be offered to her. The people at the JobCenter aren't interested in their "client's" moral position or anything else for that matter. She's been sent for an interview so attend she must. As has been pointed out, should she choose to attempt to sabotage the possibility of being offered the job it will get back to the JobCentre and she will be sanctioned. They need little excuse to sanction these days and they are on a points system to reduce the numbers of claimants. Your friend needs to be very, very careful indeed.

Okay - I've re-read the OP (should have taken my own advice!). The OP's friend appears to be dealing with an adviser who either hasn't read or is incorrectly interpreting the guidance. The guidance gives examples of situations where the claimant has cause not to attend, it isn't a comprehensive list. Of course, we don't know what she told them when she got upset over being told she had to go for the interview.

I know the writer of the guidance OP so if you want to PM me to get her some further advice, please do so.

OP's friend should complain to the job centre manager IMO and not go to the interview as it is against her beliefs.

Those of you saying she should have to apply for the job, drain on the public purse, blah fucking blah.

God forbid you should ever find yourselves unemployed and claiming. Unless you have inherited wealth, you're all one bad business decision (by your boss, that you have no influence over) from being in the same position as OP's friend.

So, if you are, and I open KBW's Seediness Fetish Massage Parlour and advertise in the job centre, you'd be OK with me getting you sanctioned for not showing sufficient enthusiasm for giving 'happy endings' to swivel-eyed, sweaty men while dressed as a saucy schoolgirl?

Oh, and full disclosure: I poach hunt for the pot on a regular basis, would only have a problem with abbatoir work if they were below the required standard on animal welfare and hygiene, and basically only eat my greens at knifepoint.

So I entirely disagree with vegan girl. But, here's the thing: respect for the sincerely-held beliefs of others, as long as they don't harm me or break the law.

As has been pointed out several times on this thread certain things are legally protected in benefit legislation and all the rules everybody has to follow.

Committed vegetarians and vegans to a degree are protected from certain things 'working in a abattoir if it would cause them mental distress' is one of them,not only is it one of them but its openly used as an example on the list highlighting possible good causes to refuse to do it.

wowfudge, what if they just sanction her anyway, in contravention of the guidance? Sorry, I'm asking you because you seem to know what you're talking about. Would she have a right of appeal?

Out of interest does anyone know if when you initially fill out the forms for job seekers allowance do they ask about religion and other beliefs? It could be that they don't believe she is vegan if she hasn't mentioned it before. A lot of people might lie about being vegan or vegetarian do avoid working in an abattoir.

Everybody has the right to appeal a sanction but while that's going on the benefits will have stopped.

Someone on JSA isn't likely to be able to afford the luxury of waiting for weeks on end for a resolution.

That's what I was thinking, Bitter, she could say 'you can't sanction me for this', and legally she'd be right, but the jobcentre will say, 'tough shit, I just did. Ha.' and she'll be living off foodbanks and extortionate credit for weeks.