Builders' sexual harassment?

[TrueToYou]

I work for local council. My office base is in the library which is undergoing a massive facelift.
As I left the building, 3 Builders (private firm undertaking the work) were standing facing the entrance. As I passed, one said "three ways".
They all laughed long and hard. I didn't look up, just ignored and moved on, but the more I think about it, the angrier I am becoming.
I see the comment as them deciding how they would share me between them. I don't think there is any doubt about that, as the long hard raucous laughter confirmed it.
Now. What to do? I'm annoyed I reacted by fiddling with my id badge, head down, hurrying on, but I guess I knew immediately a confrontation would just lead to 3 against 1 denial and gas lighting.
I'm considering making a complaint, but do not have any idea what these guys look like, other than that they were the firm's hi vis jackets.
Wwyd?

Perhaps they wanted their sandwiches for lunch and would put up a spirited defence that the boy was oversensitive or had cloth ears.

I offer the lynch/lunch defence free to Jeremy Clarkson who's been assailed by similarly oversensitive, cloth-eared types today

I'd complain about your new manager while you're at it, OP. She said you could have taken your pick? Is that meant to be funny? Supportive? That's outrageous.

That is one shit manager. David Brent style.

I don't know if I would complain myself about this one, as it isn't enough to offend me personally although without actually being there it's hard to say. I used to work in construction so I'm well used to builders' banter and comments and my tolerance level is probably higher than most.

But there is a line to draw and it's entirely up to you where you want to draw it, OP. All builders know they aren't 'allowed' to do this any more. Construction companies take it very seriously if you do complain.

I've complained twice about builders I passed who were being really vile, once to me and other women, and once to a Buddhist monk! Both times those men disappeared off site very quickly.

I complained once about a UPS delivery man. I was walking back to work when a man in the back of a UPS van had a conversation with me, it went like this -

Him - Nice boots
Me (in a dream world) - uh, um, er thanks
Him - do you want me to lick them for you
Me - Fuck off you fat fucking perv

My boots were ordinary low heeled boots, nothing kinky or high heeled.

Did I complain to UPS? yes i did. Not for me, but incase he was delivering to somebodys house and intimidated them, they might not be as gobby as me and would feel very unsafe in their own home.

I rang up and complained then had a call back a week later from a manager and went through the story again (including my reply). they had identified the driver and were having talks with him.

complain, complain, complain

There's a site about sexual harassment called Hollaback that can offer support and information.

The words these men used are foul and intended to intimidate. Please do complain.

neiljames
WOW, decisions, decisions! :)
there is NO WAY I could choose between those fabulous sounding REAL men! They each have something wonderful to offer!

Wow, I should have been walking on air really, that these fine specimens would agree to "have" me! Such a compliment! I must be looking HOT! :D

....I've no idea what's going on in my manager's head. I don't think she'd have suggested I report them if I'd asked her opinion. Not sure she personally supports my decision, but obviously professionally she will have to.

kentishgirl
I was seriously offended. I'm not soft or hyper sensitive. I've brushed off comments from builders/groups of men before, but this really did make me feel sick.
I am 40 years old. I have worked in bars and nightclubs since being 17; I've worked with my brother in law on building sites; I spent over a decade day and night full time in an all-male (apart from me of course) professional boxing gym and lived in a house share for 4 years as the only female with 6 fellas - 4 of whom worked on building sites. I'm also well used to comments thrown at women, and I have happily noticed that it is being addressed now.

I am not sensitive, my "tolerance" is high, I think, and 3 years ago (pre MN discovery) I would have let the whole thing go, as I have many, many MANY times in the past. I suppose because of the impotence I felt.

Now I am older and wiser, and I am the mother of a 12 year old girl who I hope NEVER has to experience anything like this in her life.

Doctrine, I was talking to Buffy and her daft interpretations of anything I post!

I have a viewpoint she disagrees with and finds my defending it unpalatable. Her way of telling me so is what I was referring to.

I am REALLY SORRY Buffy.

I am not being sarcastic or nasty, but I REALLY do not know how you come to that assumption. I can only repeat that I have not written anything if the sort - I do think some of your interpretations are daft, not that YOU are - and we have already discussed 'tone' on a forum.

I'm not even outraged. Just bemused that my posts have been so thoroughly misinterpreted and my explanations dismissed so tritely. I haven't changed my view, no adaptation has occurred, though you may have come to understand something different as you read. I know what I think and how I feel such incidences should be treated. That has not changed... though it probably isn't what you think it is.

Oh! That got a bit convoluted. But trying to defend thought processes usually does!

I don't know of this has been said already but all builders/labourers on a site have to have a CSCS card to work on it. So a site manager will know exactly who is there.

I would go to the site OP, ask to speak to the site manager. If this is more or less any but a private domestic contract those builders will be breaking the contractor's contract by being abusive to passing women. They will take that very seriously. If you get any bullshit just threaten (and actually do if needed) to get in touch with your local newspaper.

Not really similar, but just to add.
I encountered sexist and aggressive behaviour from a delivery driver for a well know washing machine company.

I was fuming so I emailed their customer service dpt. stated date, time and area and exactly what had happened... Didn't really think any one would take it seriously..
A few days later I had a phone call from a gentleman who was a manager who was appalled at what had happened to me.
They had tracked the driver ( who turned out to agency) and reported him to the agency and he would no longer drive for the company. So he effectively lost his job over his behaviour - I hope he will think twice next time.

Please report - I imagine the site manager will know who it likely is..He probably has a vile attitude towards women day to day.

Nomama... It's taken me several attempts to read your posts on this thread with anything less than irritation because you're still banging the drum of what you perceive is 'the best way', despite others giving you statements of fact to the contrary. Yes, if witnesses are available and willing to stand up, that can only help BUT it shouldn't be - and ISN'T - a requirement for these to be in place to enable somebody to make a complaint.

You're taking an entirely dogmatic approach, one that possibly works for you, but it wouldn't work for me and possibly doesn't work for others. There's room for multiple approaches and people will use what works for them. What isn't ok is to promote your approach as the only viable one; it isn't. What your dictat ensures is that women will not complain because they don't have their 'ducks in a row'. I'm not ok with that and never will be as it's essentially achieving what the foul-mouths want - silence.

People can post any way they want to on a chatboard but, when multiple posters are having an issue at interpreting the way one person is posting, then perhaps there's something in that?

I hope I've not misunderstood or misinterpreted this but I'll give it a go anyway. If TrueToYou makes her complaint, with or without witnesses, she'll get (or should get) what she wants. The perpetrators no longer working opposite her. What I believe Nomama is saying, is that if an account of the events can be corroborated, then it wouldn't just be a result for TrueToYou but also for other women that may potentially be subjected to abusive remarks off these men. In short, not just simply "moved on" but sacked and held accountable properly.

Hear, hear!

Absolutely, neiljames. I didn't have any difficulty picking that up from Nomama's posts and it's the ultimate victory. However, in RL there aren't likely to be witnesses and, if there are, they may not be willing to go to bat for you. Women can be just as reluctant as men, seeing this as a 'bit of fun' or 'good for the ego'.

Assuming that these men, whilst being a bit Neanderthal-like, are not entirely stupid; they will have the wits to see that being 'moved on' is neither a positive thing nor an ongoing solution that their employers will continue to take. So it stops.

Neanderthals rely on SILENCE; any action taken to disabuse them of their right to that is a very good thing.

That's my opinion anyway; I've had this all my life and have no compunction about complaining at this treatment. I've never been ignored or felt that I had, on the contrary the response has been courteous and immediate.

Thanks lessonsintightropes, never had applause before. . This is a thing that's very close to the bone for me.

Thanks neil. That is a good part of what I was saying.

The other part was that is absolutely no good approaching such a situation when you are still upset and haven't had time to get over the shock of the encounter, such men will see any emotion as a 'female weakness' and may use it to further belittle you/other women. Be calm, be certain and don't give them an inch to wriggle.

Another poster tried to say much the same and got a similar response - a slight twisting of interpretation that gave their posts quiet a different meaning. Quite an unpalatable one at that. That poster simply stopped posting and I think that was a poor outcome.

If I wasn't so adamant that I am being mis translated I would have given up. I mean, I don't mind being wrong when I am being wrong. But when I am agreeing with the majority but being consistently misinterpreted I do get tetchy. Daft I know, after all, tis 'just' a forum.

I admit I haven't read the full thread but really don't see how one comment (which could be easily explained away as it wasn't directed directly to you) constitutes 'harassment.' Also think its a tad lot overdramtic to say you hope your daughter never has to experience anything like this I think trying to cause them lose their jobs over this is ridiculous.

Lying - please believe me, I never advocated going away and not saying anything. THAT is the core of the misinterpretation.

I did say slow down, make sure you are calm and then hit them hard with a specific and irrefutable complaint.

It's a well-known porn phrase. It's disgusting, demeaning and unacceptable.

Definitely report.

Nomama... you are contradicting yourself in your last post.

How does 'not going away without saying anything' link in with 'slow down, be calm - hit them hard with a specific and irrefutable complaint?

I believe that you have the rights of women at heart, I really do. I just don't read that in your posts because if somebody were wanting to dissuade women from tackling this, they might post just as you are.

I may have to disagree with the "emotional" aspect though Nomama

I think if I was the site manager and TrueToYou came into my office crying and told me what had happened, I'd ask her to point the men out and then tell them to get changed and piss off home. So the fact that she's very emotional would reiterate just how upsetting she's found it.

Ah! That's it, is it?

I mean don't go away and leave it because you are too scared or don't think it will have any affect. I have never said that.

I do mean don't rush in whilst still upset. Go away, maybe just out of sight for a few minutes, to calm down, maybe to talk to someone and see if it has happened before - that would depend on the person and circumstances. THEN, when calm and collected, maybe seconds, maybe minutes, a day or so even, make that complaint effectively.

I know when this has happened to me I have usually needed a couple of seconds to lose the red mist and the shakes. I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of seeing me like that, angry or upset. I just want them to see a person who is calling them to account for their unacceptable behaviour. As I keep on saying, an 'emotional woman' is, for such men, proof that they are superior. I choose not to give them that corroboration and would ask evry other woman not to do so either.