To think I might have overreacted re small children on train

[blacknotebook]

Was on v crowded train out of London this afternoon and had to put two small DCs in corridor - one fell asleep in pile of coats/bags, the other sat on the floor but was in danger of getting squashed/stood on by people and lugguage. I got a bit grumpy about the whole thing. The conducter I stopped to complain to said we should have reserved seats. When we explained there were no options for reservations when we booked online, he told us that usually meant there was no room/seats left on the train and a ticket only gave us entitlement to travel not a seat.

WIBU to expect there to be at least two seats on a Sunday where we could have sat with DCs on our laps and to get a bit cross about the overcrowded conditions and think it's not good enough? At the very least, there could have been a warning on the booking system so we understood we'd be running a risk of having to stand for an hour with two worn out children? If we'd known, we would have tried to book a different train or another day, or driven/gone by coach.

Or should I have sucked it up? Plenty of other people were standing and sitting in the corridor and I'm sure they were as hot, tired and fed up as us. Thing is, littlest is only 3 and he was shattered.

You're joking right? Small children can at least sit on a coat and be more comfortable than a middle aged adult who only has the option of standing.

Family railcard, buy tickets for all of you (including under 5s), cheaper than just buying full price adult tickets, and you all get seats. Now you know you won't travel on a train that doesn't let you book seats again (though some shorter journeys - and yes, that includes an hour - are never bookable - some of the trains here in the frozen North are little more than glorified buses).

Also, weekend first - can be as little as £5 extra and much more comfortable and it's really fun annoying the other passengers with your screaming toddler.

Or do what some mums did on a train I was on once - if the conductor opens up First class to Standard class ticket holders, let your 6yos sit in the only 2 available seats, but rather than making them (easily small enough, given the enormous seats) sit on your laps, stand behind them blocking the aisle, while the 6yos compare their manicures.

I don't commute now but for some strange reason, when travelling back from a friend's say, on a Sunday, I am always surprised why the tube is full. I always expect only a few people! Where the hell do they come from and why do they look like they had a good time!!!!!

I didn't think you could ask people to move out of your booked seat if your reservation slip (as frequently happens, because for some reason they haven't done it) isn't displayed above the seat. The announcement on the train usually states so.

I have to commute by train regularly with my children for DS2's hospital appointments. I do now always pay full price for them & reserve their seats. DS2 has disabilities anyway so I feel no guilt whatsoever that he stays seated even on a crowded train. I will if I see someone struggling put DS3 on my lap & offer the seat up, but generally im too busy looking after them to really notice.

You're right that the train companies could put a notice up about how busy particular trains are, but you live & learn.

Yes, I think I'm right. If the train company hasn't placed the reservation slips (happens too often) then the booked seats cannot be enforced. I think it's dreadful that this happens so often. We had a long journey once where we couldn't sit in our pre booked seats.

Thankfully we don't have to use public transport very often.

I didn't think you could ask people to move out of your booked seat if your reservation slip (as frequently happens, because for some reason they haven't done it) isn't displayed above the seat.

If you have your reservation card then you are perfectly entitled to ask them to move. If, however, you are INSISTENT that you are in seat 28 and that I move out of your reserved seat when, in fact, I am sitting behind seat 28 and you can't read - no, you are not within your rights to shout at me if I don't move.

sparechange of course I am for real and clearly I don't mean people will die from standing, but rather that people are much more likely to die and get injured if they are standing during a train crash and given the awful safety record of British train companies that is not such an unlikely event.

Clearly there are many countries in the world where rail travel is even worse but there aren't many developed countries in the world where rail travel is as bad as Britain. It's a disgrace. My FIL was working for German rail when they were asked to sell carriages to the UK and the Germans literally had to construct 3 miles of track and purposefully make it crap to ensure the carriages would be OK to use in UK conditions - Germany simply did not have tracks as bad as the UK ones to guarrantee the carriages would be suitable for use!

When you buy a ticket you enter into a contract for a service. The agreement on the part of the rail provider cannot possibly be "what you get for your money is a chance to squeeze into this specific train if there is room for you otherwise tough luck".

But the train announcement tells you that there are no booked seats on the train where no slip is present, because it hasn't been done, then it turns into the usual free for all. Though I've ignored this, where the alternative is standing for the duration, and people usually will move.

But the train announcement tells you that there are no booked seats on the train where no slip is present

If there are NO bookings at all that is different to a few missing slips. Often the electronic signs are broken but people are still entitled to sit in their booked seats - I've heard that announcement before - that people shouldn't assume that a seat saying "available" is genuinely available.

If the online system won't let you reserve a seat that's a reasonably reliable clue that the train is full. Yes, a few seats are left unreserved but you will be in competition for them, and I am afraid that those without DCs can run faster than you. JTB.

A few years ago I got off a massively crowded Sunday train over 100 miles from my destination because I was in danger of serious crush injuries (yes really) YANBU.

I was left with bruises all up 1 arm and on my ribs. Was initially cross because couldn't get to my reserved seat but after another train was cancelled and everyone piled onto ours it got really frightening.

Won't travel by rail on Sunday s anymore.

I have given up my seat for a parent with a young child before, on both a train and bus.

I clearly seem to be in the minority though!

I think on crowded trains, giving up seats can be a bit of an issue. Often, you will have people with luggage they may not be able to move easily, and I wouldn't leave my luggage unattended due to the risk of theft. As well as this, if I were in the middle of the carriage, I wouldn't be able to see your children in the luggage area, especially if the train was really rammed. The seats at the end of the carriage are generally for those less able to stand anyway (although not always).

I have given up reserved seats in the past for those who seem to have difficulty standing. However, I have also travelled on trains after long flights etc. and sometimes if I am very tired, I just want to sleep and not give up my reserved seat for anyone. If I don't reserve a seat, I never have any expectation of getting one (although of course it is a nice bonus).

I do think train service in this country is really overpriced though, and now use coach services like National Express or MegaBus at times instead. Yes it is a longer travel time (if you don't count delays) but in general the coach is usually less packed and you are guarenteed a seat.

I really wish that they could have a system where when the seats are full you can't buy a ticket for that train. I hate over packed trains and worry about what would happen if it were to derail or something, why is it unreasonable to expect a seat? if you were booking any other form of transport you would be buying a seat eg: coach / flight why should a train be any different especially at the price they sell tickets for.

I wouldn't leave my luggage unattended due to the risk of theft

I bet you're dead popular on a crowded train where the only real space for luggage is in the overhead racks or the end-of-carriage luggage racks. Do you give your suitcase a seat to itself and/or refuse to lift your carry-on sized case into the overhead rack (or let someone do it for you)? Or put your tiny carry-on in the bottom of the luggage rack?

Though I know some trains in France etc. do issue only the number of tickets for which there are seats, and this is in principle quite sensible, this isn't true for all journeys and an hours journey probably wouldn't fall under this in the French system - as train journeys go, it's not that long.

The French students would have known as it is the same in France! Haven't a ticket without a seat reservation doesn't entitled you to a seat the world over! Common sense isn't it.

much more likely to die and get injured if they are standing during a train crash and given the awful safety record of British train companies that is not such an unlikely event.Clearly there are many countries in the world where rail travel is even worse but there aren't many developed countries in the world where rail travel is as bad as Britain. It's a disgrace. My FIL was working for German rail when they were asked to sell carriages to the UK and the Germans literally had to construct 3 miles of track and purposefully make it crap to ensure the carriages would be OK to use in UK conditions - Germany simply did not have tracks as bad as the UK ones to guarrantee the carriages would be suitable for use!

You are talking utter shite here. Britain has the joint best rail safety record in Europe. It is better than Germany's rail safety record. Anyway track safety is the responsibility of Network Rail, not the Train Operating company. Rail safety

Your Father in law's anecdote has nothing to do with safety. It is to do with ride quality. A proportion of this is to do with the amount of jointed track left on British lines (now largely replaced with continuous weld rails) that was noisy and bumpy rather than dangerous.

I'm a bit at the comments that it should be totally obvious to the OP that if she couldn't book a seat on her online booking it means the train will be full. That sort of thing is only obvious if you actually know London transport. If I found myself in London I would have no clue that trains would be busy on a Sunday because where I live they aren't. Similarly you can't book a seat on train here so again if I made an online booking I wouldn't think anything was amiss if it didn't offer an option to book a seat.

Still, I've read this thread and I'll know for the future. But not knowing doesn't make me idiotic, it makes me someone who has never been to London. We do exist

Some lines (even more than an hour) out of London don't have bookable seats. I know this will surprise people. Also when we travel on them we can usually get a seat - although sometimes it can be a search.
Sundays are bad though, more chance of a replacement bus and engineering works. If something goes majorly wrong then the trains can be very over full, and you just have to cope.

Its normally not that busy when I travel though.

Then there are the normally empty trains (e.g. 10:30 pm) which are surprisingly full because a school has just had a concert at a London venue etc.

Most trains I've travelled in overseas you have had to have a reservation, so they don't get as crowded, however this isn't always true of commuter lines - but they aren't the ones tourists usually travel on.

London Midland doesn't do seat reservations on lots of it's trains, and they are journeys of more than two hours. They often don't have functioning toilets either! You have to get onto the platform at Euston as soon as the train comes up on the departure board to get a seat after about 4pm each day.

YY southwest, nor do FCC even when going as far as Cambridge or Peterborough. Most London commuter trains I've been on aren't actually set up for seat reservations, they don't even have seat numbers.

Booboostoo since you mentioned Germany, I can confirm that millions of people also stand on commuter trains, every day in Germany. And lots of those trains are double-deckers!

YABVU

My dh has been in a train crash and it wasn't the standing up that killed people but the fire and smoke. That will get you whether or not you have a seat.