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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think I might have overreacted re small children on train

145 replies

blacknotebook · 27/04/2014 20:52

Was on v crowded train out of London this afternoon and had to put two small DCs in corridor - one fell asleep in pile of coats/bags, the other sat on the floor but was in danger of getting squashed/stood on by people and lugguage. I got a bit grumpy about the whole thing. The conducter I stopped to complain to said we should have reserved seats. When we explained there were no options for reservations when we booked online, he told us that usually meant there was no room/seats left on the train and a ticket only gave us entitlement to travel not a seat.

WIBU to expect there to be at least two seats on a Sunday where we could have sat with DCs on our laps and to get a bit cross about the overcrowded conditions and think it's not good enough? At the very least, there could have been a warning on the booking system so we understood we'd be running a risk of having to stand for an hour with two worn out children? If we'd known, we would have tried to book a different train or another day, or driven/gone by coach.

Or should I have sucked it up? Plenty of other people were standing and sitting in the corridor and I'm sure they were as hot, tired and fed up as us. Thing is, littlest is only 3 and he was shattered.

OP posts:
thornrose · 27/04/2014 23:38

Why do you decide who needs a seat though?

SilveryMary · 27/04/2014 23:39

Very young children can be put on laps of seated adults. If their accompanying adults are standing I would only ask children to move for somebody in particular need of a seat, not just for an adult who had paid more.

thornrose · 27/04/2014 23:42

Oh ok, so children can't be unwell or disabled Confused

GarlicAprilShowers · 27/04/2014 23:44

Could be worse ...

To think I might have overreacted re small children on train
SilveryMary · 27/04/2014 23:46

What kind of reactions do you receive on asking a young child to move for an (able and well) adult, on the basis that they have paid more? I think there's something quite awful about that, somehow.

erin99 · 27/04/2014 23:52

If those who pay more got to chuck those who've got a discount off a seat, wouldn't that mean commuters should give up their seats to people paying more expensive, non-season-ticket prices?!

I've never come across the idea that those paying less (chn, elderly, Young Persons Railcard etc) should give up their seats to those paying more. Cheaper tickets are concessions for a reason. Children giving them up to older people, absolutely, but it's a courtesy not an auction.

thornrose · 27/04/2014 23:52

I'm trying to picture my reaction Silvery! Fortunately the few occasions my dd hasn't been able to get a seat, due to me being physically unable to book one, we've been met with kindness and compassion.

GarlicAprilShowers · 28/04/2014 00:10

"Up to two children under five years of age may travel free of charge with a passenger holding a ticket or other authority to travel. However, children under five years of age who are travelling free may only occupy a seat which is not required by a passenger holding a ticket or appropriate authority to travel."

SilveryMary · 28/04/2014 00:13

But you also said you'd turf the children out of their seats who had paid half fare.

"Child travels free or half-price. Carriage ram-packed with full-sized people paying full fare. That's reason enough"

GarlicAprilShowers · 28/04/2014 00:18

Rule was the same for half-price DC when I was commuting daily. It's not in the version I just checked, maybe it's changed.

Monty27 · 28/04/2014 00:26

Clearly you haven't been to Guides as in being prepared, or whatever or whoever it is that says that.

YABVU. suck it up OP, not pleasant but your fault this time I'm afraid.

SilveryMary · 28/04/2014 00:34

That does make sense. But I can't see why a child (whose parents may also have booked their seat) paying concessionary rate would also be required to give up their seat to an adult who had paid the full fare. I can't find anything about that.

funkybuddah · 28/04/2014 08:31

I also dont see the problem with kods standing. we take a 2.5 hr train ride to our holiday destination every year and never book seats as we end up buying our tickets on the day.
we sit by the doors on the floor if we have to, after the first hour the train empties and we get a seat.

I dont feel I have any right to complain, stood up on a bus for 1hr once as no seats. Never thought to complain.

However we have never had a car so my dc are used to walking miles from age 2ish so standing/making do on public transport is a treat for their feet lol

Appletini · 28/04/2014 08:38

LadySybil the railcard is well worth it - adult ones get a discount for two people, not sure if child ones are the same

Booboostoo · 28/04/2014 09:18

YANBU and frankly I am astonished at the number of people willing to just accept an awful and dangerous situation. When did it become the norm for trains to be so packed people have to stand in them in a regular basis? Why is the user's fault, who has paid an appropriate ticket for their journey, for not putting up with these conditions?

Standing room on trains strikes me as a very dangerous practice, but train companies have conditioned people to think of it as normal. Train tickets are extremely expensive, you can fly to Europe for half of what they charge to get you a few hundred miles down the road, but the service is still awful.

Fleta · 28/04/2014 09:23

LadySybil the railcard is well worth it - adult ones get a discount for two people, not sure if child ones are the same

I have a Family & Friends Railcard and you can have up to four adults travelling provided a child is travelling also.

I'm really surprised at the number of people experiencing awful service. I've been all over with DD and never had an issue.

As to whether I'd allow DD to be turfed out of the seat I had paid for for her, probably not!

ComposHat · 28/04/2014 09:27

However, you would think that the train companies, realising that EVERY single Sunday pm the trains are packed and people are standing, might bung on a couple more carriages or even run an extra service? Or is that too difficult?

It would be difficult in the extreme for any number of reasons.

  1. Most trains are in fixed formations (a unit of four carriages) so you can't just bung a few carriages in
  2. There is a chronic shortage or rolling stock on British railways.
  3. Platform length dictates the maximum length of a train stopping at a station
  4. A large number of routes are already full to capacity, with numerous users often wanting the same stretch of line and using it at five or ten minute intervals. That is before you factor in testing, maintenance and upgrade work.
HercShipwright · 28/04/2014 09:32

Our trains always have one carriage with no reservations. It's generally insufficient for the number of people without reservations. But it's easy and free to reserve seats (the ones with compulsory reservation are cheaper too). It's very clear on the website I use that no reservations available means there might be no seats.

Theodorous · 28/04/2014 09:33

I was speaking to someone who had refused to give up their pre booked and paid seat to a screaming mother of toddlers, this person didn't want to stand and thus booked a seat and was surprised (and a little scared) that she was screamed at and called a name purely because she was organised and sensible but, hadn't, as yet, squeezed a child out of her vagina. I am sure you were frazzled but if you had heard about this nutter it may have put you off being angry alpha mum. As an aside, I wouldn't want someone else's child sleeping on my luggage really

Greyhound · 28/04/2014 09:34

I don't think children should have priority when it comes to seating - pregnant, elderly, disabled should get priority.

Having said that, it would have been helpful if the website had stated that there were no seats left.

Retropear · 28/04/2014 09:43

Anybody who wants or needs a seat needs to book.

After that it's first come first served.

MarcusAurelius · 28/04/2014 09:51

Trains are shit, expensive, slow, overcrowded, dirty and dangerous. Unfortunately they are a necessary evil and until you have to use them regularly you won't always know the pitfalls.

I fully expect there to be a crash soon where people die due to overcrowding and only then will overcrowding and seating be taken seriously on the railways.

sparechange · 28/04/2014 09:55

Booboostoo
Are you for real? Dangerous situation?! Literally millions of people stand on a train in the UK every single day, and no one dies
Trains are busy because many many people live in one place and work in another. It has been like it since the 1980s at least

HercShipwright · 28/04/2014 10:00

The trains from London to where I live can be like the black hole of Calcutta in the holidays and in the summer. It's always been like that. There was an incident a few years ago (level crossing accident) and some people did die. But they haven't given us better, longer or more frequent trains. In fact they have reduced the frequency slightly.

5madthings · 28/04/2014 10:01

This is why I always book seats, I use a family railldcard and pay for seats including for my under fives and no I won't move them out of seats I have paid for unless it was someone with a specific need ie disability.

But there are generally seats on trains that have signs saying priority seat for elderly, disabled, preg etc. I wouldn't sit in those seats unless no one needed them.

I tend to book a table and a another row of two seats nearby, five children. It can be a nightmare on some of the trains to and from London, I had some commuters get pissy with me when I asked them politely to move as they were sitting in my pre booked seats, their attitude was I wasn't a commuter and so shouldn't be on the train with my kids... I had actually had a hospital app involving some uncomfortable treatment and would rather not have done it with small children in tow but needs must and I had booked the seats so I was damed if I was going to stand!