AIBU to want free delivery on formula

[Tangoandcreditcards]

I'm ffing my 2 month-old. (From birth, I've had a double mastectomy) I've been stewing about this for a month.

I ordered a load of formula to be delivered to my local Boots (5 doors down, as opposed to "the high street" which is further away, it's a tiny Boots, so doesn't stock the formula I'm using in the quantity I need (hence the order).

If you spend over £20 online for store delivery online you get free delivery. So I ordered a little over £20 worth. When the transaction went through I got charged for delivery. I contacted them for a delivery refund and was told that because it was formula, they legally can't have any offers on it, and I would have to be charged (£3.95!).

I do appreciate why it's illegal advertise/promote formula for newborns, and why breastfeeding is encouraged by HCPs because I do actually understand that some women might want/need some encouragement and education to choose BFing.

However... BFing is free, FFing is not, and NO-ONE is going to switch to formula because they can get free blooming delivery on it (or loyalty points, for that matter). I feel cheated. Maybe I am just being precious about 4 quid because I'm overly sensitive about the subject. I'll obviously just get off my bum and go somewhere else to get it, but I'm enraged at the fact that I have to, it just seems like legislation taken a bit too far to me! Who can I complain to? Is it poor interpretation of the law or just that the rules don't make sense? AIBU to think that economic sanctions (!!) on FFing parents are unfair?

There you go. Kiddicare is your friend then.
Plus, they are sooo much cheaper than boots son everything.

There is actually some pretty decent research on not having 'offers' on formula. I won't get into it here, as it's not that relevant. It's mostly do with bloody sneaky behaviour by formula companies, whose general behaviour (here and abroad) can be awful.

Just to get it out of the way, just because I agree with that bit, doesn't mean I am anti-formula feeding. I don't care whether it is personal preference, medical need or somewhere in between - women should feed their babies in the way that is best for them and their circumstances.

As regards free delivery, I think Boots have misunderstood the law, and I think you should write to them about it and make them look at it properly. Permanent price reductions are specifically not part of the prohibition (so the reason retailers all charge roughly the same is because they choose to and only want to compete on price if they can bump it back up again and move the promotions around the brands). I would argue that free delivery is also part of that. If their long term policy is that orders over X are free, I don't see how that is prohibited.

I'd love to hear someone with a more detailed knowledge of the law comment on that, but I think it's over-zealous by Boots, not the law. Bit like blaming 'elf and safety' for everything.

bikerunski that is awful.

"In this case I don't even think it's an attempt to encourage breastfeeding, I think it's cynical manipulation of the "no offers" rule by Boots to make an extra delivery charge off a high value item."

Cross posted with you, but innocent or deliberate, I think you've got it in one there.

Ds2 is 8 weeks old and ff due to my medication. I've found this time round I was given more info on ff than last time although every midwife antenally asked if I was going to bf despite it being documented extensively.

My friend on the other hand asked for advice as she introduced mix feeding at 4 months and her baby was reacting to formula and was told by her hv she couldn't help because they aren't allowed to give any advice on ff!

I'm another exclusive expresser gobbo. I agree there was no support.

I breast fed two, I then had two operations on left breast. I gave birth to twins and could not feed without high risk to myself. It was all over my notes that I couldn't feed twins and that if I had a milk build up I would need a third operation. The hassle I got about breast is best was unbelievable.
They didn't have delivery in my day, though, but I do think Boots is being plain bloody daft!

Thats really shitty of boots. Lots of women don't bf for whatever reason,,they don't need to justify it.
Congratulations on your new baby .

I'm really shocked to hear about this ridiculous and discriminatory situation with ffing. The case of OP and of Ledkr is truly awful, not just the purchasing of it but the ridiculous referrals and the attitude of the hcps in general. I'm sorry, I am of the camp that people ought to stop judging the way others feed their babies....it's just madness. Everyone I know breast fed if they could for as long as they could. If they couldn't do it for long or at all they went through hideous guilt. It's wrong that people are being made to feel like this..

Gobbolino unfortunately not. She looked at DS, asked how old he was (8 weeks or something) did a bit of cooing, scanned through the formula and told me about the points, then launched into "you know, bf is really much better for the baby, so much healthier and easier for you....." Well, I had tried. For 9 days. No milk came through, at all, not a drop. DS lost 23% of his birth weight. Hospital tried all sorts, loads of support, even had a "rebirth". Nothing. Except she didn't ask me if I'd tried bf....

Thanks penguin I appreciate the clarification on permanent price reductions. I'm off to draft a a letter, as I'm glad people seem to agree that I ANBU even within the context of the law and the spirit in which it was intended (still think that retailer loyalty points should be allowed too).

And kiddicare, here I come!

I am pretty sure that if you have a google you can get clearer confirmation of the law, which you could probably quote in your letter.

I am unable to breastfeed DD (having fed both DSs) because I was having chemo, so if I bf I would have poisoned her. I still got comments.

I sympathise with your situation and boots are shit full stop IME. I do think the regulations on formula promotion should be tighter, based on what some of these bastard companies are doing to women in the third world. For example I don't think they should be allowed to promote their brand by advertising pointless follow-on milk, follow-on milk should have to have a different brand name to first milk.

Gurnie it's true that some of the language used about FFing by HCPs should be perhaps be modified to avoid distress for women who can't BF for any reason (I wasn't distressed, but my DP was genuinely upset when we were told in antenatal that FFed babies were "likely"* to have health problems, I had to talk him down )

I also had plenty of friends tell me I was "lucky" to not have to go through the upset of trying and failing to BF - slightly insensitive on their part as I didn't feel like I'd won the lottery when I had the mastectomy - but indicative of how prevalent negative attitudes to FFing are.

*i think she meant 'statistically more likely' but that isn't what she said

Too many issues being conflated and confused here.

The 'no special offers' is the law. Boots have applied it in this case beyond the point that any trading standards office would insist. The law probably never considered delivery charges and there is nothing in the law that mentions them. Boots will have no view on bf/ff; they are just doing what they interpret the law, applied literally, to mean. It's not a comment on anyone's choice or need to ff.

Women asking for advice on formula and not getting it is a different issue and that's just crap maternity care. If someone says they are not allowed to give advice they are not doing their job properly. They cannot say one formula is better than another in general but individual formulas may suit individual babies and they are able to discuss that.

Free formula for women who are unable breastfeed would require a doctor's permission to formula feed. Not a road to go down!

Tiktok - I hoped you would be along .

As I have always understood it, the language of the regulations is about advertising, promotions, discounts, tie in sales, coupons, etc and with a catch all about 'promotional activity'.

They can't have formula as a loss leader, but if they wanted to cut their profit margins permanently on formula they could. Yes?

Likewise, if you offer free delivery on all orders over X, regardless of what is purchased, then it seems a very over zealous (not even literal) definition of promotional activity to say that you have to actively exclude the formula? Probably as evidenced by other companies not choosing to exclude formula in this way?

No idea where all these people who judge FF are, I FF both mine totally by choice and never felt any pressure to do anything else.
Maybe I'm just oblivious.
The Boots thing is crap though, I've had formula delivered by the supermarkets for free as part of a shop though. Never had formula from Kiddiecare but found them great for other things

Penguins you are right. Permanent discounting is permitted. Boots could undertake to deliver for free permanently, I expect, and be within the literal letter of the law.

Margins on formula could be cut and as long as they were permanent and prices were low as a result, permanently, it would be fine.

Someone has already said it, but I also believe op should get her formula free on prescription. Some trusts give formula on prescription to women with HIV as medically they are advised not to breastfeed (and so are encouraged to formula feed) but I think this should be the case for anyone with medical needs meaning they cannot bf, so that they can shift the feelings of guilt - or being vilified as I think the op put it. I have no breast tissue at all. My chest is flatter than my husbands, and have had it confirmed that this is why I never made one drop of milk. I needed to have it confirmed as the reason, because I have always felt incredibly guilty about it. I was devastated to not be able to bf.

I do actually agree with the rules though, because the formula companies desperately need to be kept in line, and this is the only way to achieve that. The legislation is European so not just in the UK, and I will confess I have complained to shops in the past for not adhering to it.

Thanks Tiktok - I would say it is a permanent arrangement on delivery not a promotion. It's a 'spend over X and delivery is free' arrangement that has been in place for at least five years (I remember ordering a whole load of pads and stuff to our local Boots when DD1 was born)

I wasn't aware that you don't get points on formula. I find it really patronising that it is seen that mothers will opt to formula feed to get some extra points, I don't even see the logic, if your not having to buy formula you could just spend the money on baby clothes and toys chocolate and wine and still get extra points.

I was very fortunate in that breastfeeding was easy for me and ds, I would never have thought to myself I think I'll stop using the free milk my breasts produce and start buying ds milk so I can get some extra points. Even if a formula company was providing me with free formula why would it matter? I still wouldn't change things.

ikea - I don't want to derail this thread. But it isn't as simple as pretending that any woman would be swayed in their feeding choice by a few reward points. Of course they wouldn't. It's about preventing any promotion of first stage formula (with points at one end of that spectrum) because formula companies have proved time and time again that they don't do it responsibly and that they harm bfing when allowed to do so.

But it's so silly to have offers on things like alcohol which has much more severe consequences for societyand the individual but not on formula. It makes itseem like formula is more "dangerous" than alcohol.

Free formula for women who are unable breastfeed would require a doctor's permission to formula feed. Not a road to go down!

I don't think that's quite the right analogy. The position should remain that anyone is free to buy formula if they so wish

in addition prescribed formula could be available to people in ledkr's and tango's position. Just as it is made available to those with HIV or those whose children need prescription formula due to eg lactose intolerance etc.