To think it's unfair that I can't get my tubes tied?

[saggybaggy]

It is my body at the end of the day right?

I have two beautiful DCs and I'm happy with just that. DH and I definitely do not want any more children and I chose to get sterilized.

So I went to the GP for my 6 weeks check up and had asked to get my tubes tied only to be refused because of my age (22) "Youre still young, you may change your mind" bullshi..!!

I'm happy with my decision so I think it's bloody unfair for my GP to refuse. Even if DH and I divorce (God forbid!) I won't all of a sudden feel 'cheated' as I personally do not want anymore children, even if the worst happened.

AIBU? It's our right, right?

[Nousernameforme]

I asked for a sterilisation at my 6 week check I am 31 and this is dc4 was told that legally due to hormones I am mentally unfit to make this decision and to come back at 6 months. I have previously asked my partner to get done but he is a lazy bugger who never bothered going to docs. I refuse to take any hormonal contraception as I have a history of panic attacks and anxiety that get worse when my hormones are messed around with and no I won't have the copper coil it's bad enough having a smear never mind them putting something up there and leaving it

[twizzleship]

*bogeyface, "It isnt a choice, anymore than it is a choice for a lion, elephant or shark to have offspring" SERIOUSLY?!!! [GRIN] are you for real??? Are you seriously reducing a human woman to the level of a wild animal??

In case it has passed you by, we are living in the UK in the 21st century where every woman HAS THE CHOICE as to whether she wants kids or not. We are not hostages to our womb anymore. We are not breeding machines.

paying for maternity care is caring for women going through a normal physical process Of course it is...but women have been doing that since time immemorial without the taxpayer picking up the bill. Also, in the first world it is a lifestyle choice to have children especially more than one. There was a time when there was a need for bigger families but there isn't now...just look at the problems in terms of the welfare bill and the wider impact on society. What you're saying is that we should keep paying for people to continue breeding irresponsibly but not pay the medical costs for those who are being responsible about their fertility.

[Mignonette]

No need to breed more than once or twice though- costs a lot more than tubal ligation.

Just sayin' n all.

[Mignonette]

Oh please -

saying that having children is THE default biological imperative when most Western women are fully aware that it sin't the be all and end all is a bit before the flood. We are NOT the same as sharks, elephants and ants. We have theory of mind and the ability to make moral choices.

We have contraception and an ability to control our fertility and NOT bring too many humans into this over populated world.

[differentnameforthis]

I asked for a sterilisation at my 6 week check I am 31 and this is dc4 was told that legally due to hormones I am mentally unfit to make this decision

That sounds like bull to me, legally unable to choose to be sterilised due to hormones?

If that isn't bull, I want it women made legally unable to name their babies for 6mths due to names like Apple.

Seriously....your dr told you that? Mentally unfit...

Bloody hell.

[Louise1956]

If you feel that strongly about it, why not get it done privately?

[differentnameforthis]

Louise1956 RTT

OP has said she will consider that, but that isn't the point of the thread.

Why should she be refused & treated like she doesn't know her own mind, just because she is 22?

After all, I was under the impression she is an adult.

[ICanSeeTheSun]

I have had a new thought, if a private surgeon is willing to do the operation doesn't it throw the question that if the nhs deems a 22 year old to young for this operation is it ethnically wrong for a private surgeon to do it.

Is there guidelines that all HCP ( public and private) should follow.

[RuddyDuck]

I think you should be respected in your contraceptive choices, whatever your age. However, I do understand why you should wait until your baby is older, I think that is reasonable.

I was always very clear that I only wanted 2 dc. When I was in hospital waiting to have dc2 , we asked about dh having a vasectomy. We were told to wait until dc2 was 1 year old as that would give us time to make an informed decision, rather than making it whilst pregnant. Dh went back to GP a year later and had the vasectomy. We've never regretted that decision, but I still think the hospital was right to refuse when I was having dc2 and made us wait for the year.

There should be a ruling that, if you decide to be sterilised and then change your mind, any reversal should be privately funded. Before Dh had the snip we were given a lot of information along with the consent forms making it very clear that sterilisation should not be regarded as reversible.

[MissDuke]

My friend was sterilized immediately after her section with her 5th DC, she was 26. She requested it whilst pregnant and the doctor was very supportive of her choice, perhaps partly because it was her 4th section. I think it should be the woman's choice, so long as she receives sufficient counselling to be sure she fully understands.

[maggiethemagpie]

I have asked for this, I am 37 have had my family and also have a medical condition that means if I did get pregnant I would have to have an abortion as my own body could not handle another pregnancy. I was told it is discouraged as it is a serious operation and it is better for the man to have the snip. In my case, I don't want my oh to have the snip because of my faulty body, and he doesn't want it either, so i'm just going to have the coil until I'm 45.
They didn't say I could not have it by the way, just that they discouraged it. But if they discourage it for someone like me who has every reason to have it I can see why they said to the OP that she couldn't have it. Yes YABU

[Liara]

I don't think the NHS say that you can't get your tubes tied, only that they will not pay for it.

Which is fair enough, if their statistics say that people of a certain age who get sterilized are more likely than not to want expensive reversal/IVF treatment in the future.

It is your body, but like with plastic surgery, that doesn't mean the NHS should provide it.

[PlentyOfPubeGardens]

What are the NICE guidelines? Does anyone know?

[OafOrForksAche]

YABU.

Referring patients under 30 is a no no.
Referring postpartum patients is a no no
It is recommended to see both partners together to counsel about this decision
Counselling is recommended to reiterate reversals are not offered on the NHS. It is like IVF in that even in the case of the death of a child it will not be funded.

Failure rate of male sterilisation is 1/2000, a less invasive procedure with less complications. Female sterilisation failure rates are 1/200. The Mirena has better contraceptive odds.

It's not the GPs fault. They know any decent gynae would say no. Why waste NHS resources on a referral which will likely not have an outcome? Also any decent gynae would refuse before a Mirena has at least been tried.

I would be very dubious of any private gynae who would agree to this. I agreed to refer a young patient to a private gynae, she was desperate for a hysterectomy. He said no.
I've seen more women come in ask for sterilisation reversals and get highly pissed off as it's no longer done. One lady then asked for NHS IVF (she had lots of kids so wasn't eligible) as she wanted kids with her new partner, was very angry she couldn't have it.

There are other options. Try them.

[PlentyOfPubeGardens]

Well I must have been bloody lucky to get mine then, age 29 with only 2 dc and not in a relationship. Mind you, this was before mirena was around.

I think it's pretty shitty that you can be grown up enough to have DC but assumed not to know your own mind when it comes to this. I conceived both mine thoroughly fecklessly. Nobody asked me if I was sure or ran through the substantial risks of PG, birth or the risk of regretting having them (I don't, but there have been moments!)

wtf have hysterectomies got to do with it?

[Mignonette]

I had no counselling. The OBGYN commented 'I see you are a MH Professional. You clearly know your own mind'

I went alone.

I was well under thirty.

I only had two children and one of them was a baby.

My consultant was (and still is) one of the best and most well respected in the NHS.

[OafOrForksAche]

plentyofpubesgardens it was an example of an irreversible gynae procedure requested by a young lady which was refused due to age.

duh

[OafOrForksAche]

Well I think it's terrible you weren't offered counselling Mignonette.

I don't get why it's being suggested sterilisation is refused because patients don't know their own mind. It's nothing to do with that, no one is casting aspersions on patients immaturity.

Referrals, operations, guidelines...all very complicated. Has to go on evidence, necessity and yes, funding. There are individual cases that differ from the norm but without evidence based guidelines (in this case the evidence of regret, the evidence of the amount of sterilisation reversal requests and the evidence that there are better contraceptive choices out there which are less invasive and can be reversed) we'd be up shit creek without a paddle.

[differentnameforthis]

I don't understand the reluctance to refer a woman post birth & then the willingness to sterilise during a section.

My team told me that they rarely sterilise at the time of a section as everything is too swollen & the failure rate is much higher, yet they sterilised my friend at her section.

Why do it for anyone at all, at that stage, if it is more likely to fail.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Different, I assume in some cases the swelling may be low enough to make it possible, or that more likely to fail means 1 in 160 vs 1 in 200 or similar.

[PlentyOfPubeGardens]

duh Gosh, that's nice Oaf

I still don't see the relevance of hysterectomies to this discussion. Women don't have hysterectomies for the same reasons as they have sterilisation, it's a much bigger operation with very different risks and implications, especially if ovaries are removed too.

... the evidence that there are better contraceptive choices out there ... Surely the best contraceptive choice will vary from woman to woman depending on her body, lifestyle, situation and personal preferences. Sterilisation was the best contraceptive choice for me once I didn't want any more DC, along with lots of other women.

It would appear that I was very lucky to be able to get one under the age of 30 after only two DC. There are women on this thread who were refused the operation when -

• they were much older
  
• they had more DC
  
• they had a very tough time with PG, birth and after effects
  
• PG would have been dangerous
  
• their other contraceptive choices were limited
  

There doesn't seem to be any consistency in who's 'allowed' to have one and who isn't. I think this is shit and it's why I'd be interested in what the NICE guidelines say.

Oaf, your posts come across as very patronising, are you the OP's GP?

[Lagoonablue]

Pay for it then. As someone said though in medicine there are guidelines and assessments to be made. Voluntary sterilisation isn't a right on the NHS. Additionally it is a costly and medically intrusive procedure.

[Lottapianos]

Sterilization is a highly responsible choice if you don't want to have any (more) children. Why are some posters making the OP out to be some kind of spoilt diva for asking for this procedure? Should we all have to pay for our own contraception too?

[PlentyOfPubeGardens]

Why should she have to pay for it? It's offered on the NHS along with 14 other contraceptive methods - everybody is entitled to free contraception on the NHS and I would imagine sterilisation works out a lot cheaper than years of pill prescriptions. If she's suitable she should get a referral.

This is from the NHS page on female sterilisation:

Who can have it done?

Almost any woman can be sterilised. However, sterilisation should only be considered by women who do not want any more children, or do not want children at all. Once you are sterilised it is very difficult to reverse the process, so it's important to consider the other options available before making your decision. Sterilisation reversal is not usually available on the NHS.

Surgeons are more willing to perform sterilisation when women are over 30 years old and have had children, although some younger women who have never had a baby choose it.

Goodness me, it makes it sound as if this is something women are allowed to choose!

[PlentyOfPubeGardens]

This thread has reminded me though that when I was first considering having mine done, I encountered a lot of quite angry reactions from friends and family, which never seemed to be based on any rational reason. It was quite odd and I still wonder what that was really about.