to be disappointed at the attitude of our playgroup attendees?

[playgroupwoes]

Regular post NC as this makes me identifiable.

When I moved here 2 and a half years ago as a SAHM I needed a way to meet friends and to get out with my DS so I started going to a playgroup which was run voluntarily by a group of local mums. I loved it and ended up going to both sessions every week. The way I saw it, the fact that I attended so often meant I was pretty much duty bound to at least help with the setting up/tidying away. As it happened I ended up joining the committee and now run the group with two other mums.

The group is very popular and we often get compliments on how well it's run etc. I really enjoy running it and meeting new people but lately the whole thing is being soured by how lazy and entitled our attendees seem to be - is this the norm or are we just unlucky?

The sessions start at 10 but a few mums regularly turn up early and then stand around chatting while we run around putting out toys. We know these mums well and they know how hard we work and yet they seem to have no qualms about simply not helping us. I sometimes ask for them to do things and here and there but tbh it's easier to get on with it than to constantly direct them when they know exactly what to do but are just too lazy to do it.

Equally there are a number of parents/grandparents who watch everyone else tidying up at the end and then just wander out without lifting a finger to help. We actually had to ask for people to tidy up their children's snack stuff - practically everyone was just leaving the mess all over the table for the skivvies to clear away.

Our numbers have increased a lot in the last year or so and that has made the attitude even worse for some reason - a couple of times recently I've had mums (it always seems to be mums, we have plenty of dads and grandparents too) snippily ask me where such and such is as though the service isn't up to scratch. It is infuriating.

The youngest children of the two other mums are starting fulltime nursery in September so we are looking for people to replace them so that the group can continue. I just cannot run it on my own so without volunteers the group will close.

Out of nearly 50 parents one solitary person has stepped up and as it happens she genuinely can't commit the time needed. Still, she and only she has done her best to help in any way she can and is a godsend. It's a shame she can't do more as she is great, but she has a genuine excuse for not being able to so.

Everyone else seems perfectly happy to watch volunteers run around after them and seem to see nothing wrong with not helping out.

AIBU to be really disappointed at the whole thing? I helped from the very first day I attended and never once sat down and expected my fellow parents to run around after me. I was hugely grateful these mums had started such a great group and was only too happy to help.

Is this apathy and unwillingness to step up a symptom of the society we live in, that people will happily just take and take and not contribute? Or are we, as I say, just unlucky? Can anyone explain this attitude and perhaps restore my positivity?

Ours has a rota for set up, snack, washing up and toy tidy. It works pretty well.

I think it is easier to bear those who don't help if they are positive about, and grateful for the group. It is particularly annoying when lazy people do nothing but complain.

As for the older lady being paid idea - well, which older lady were you talking about? Were you planning to hire her, pay her, sort out any problems with her? People have these kind of ideas but never seem to want to follow them up IME.

YANBU but it is just the way it is. Out of a group of people who use a community resource the amount of people who are actually willing to physically help out is miniscule (and way less than the number of people who go to not inconsiderable effort to moan about said resource) And then everyone moans when said resource closes/gets shittier.

Could you tell people that you are either going to have to charge more to pay a play leader and a cleaner or there is going to have to be more help? Put it clearly. Also, I would put someone onto a rota and then leave them to it - perhaps take a week off. People often do step up when they have to.

i dont know if these things can run with paid help? ours couldnt. even with free hall. we dont charge much though i suppose.

I ran a toddler group for a year. Never again.

The best run groups I've been to are staffed by church helpers and this means that bar putting toys away, there is very little to do.

Otherwise - rotas don't work - people sign up and then don't turn up. Appeals to peoples better nature don't work because PFB needs changing or his rattle picking up or needs his nap - and that takes precedence.

What DOES work is leaving people to get on with it. So give someone the keys and leave them to organise it for a few weeks - be 'on holiday' or something. It's amazing how things fall into place once people actually have to start doing things for themselves.

I have witnessed some extraordinary behaviour though - when I relinquished being 'chair' we had a healthy balance in the bank so we could pay the rent and for an xmas party. New women took over and for the next year money was splashed on parties, visits from entertainment companies, new costumes...halloween party cost a fortune. And then no money to pay rent.

I go to quite a few groups as I'm at home with 3 DCs. There are groups I help at and 2 groups I never help at. The groups I never help at have a lot of volunteers from the churches the groups are held in. They don't have children with them. They are all about 60 and wear name badges and run the groups very efficiently. Nothing is tidied up during the groups and everything is set up beforehand. I would not know how to go about helping at these groups.
I help tidy up at the others. Sometimes I am feeding my baby and don't. She cries if I set her down so when I do help it is with her on my hip and she is heavy. After reading this thread I will try to always finish bf before tidy up time as I would hate for the lovely people who run the groups to think they were looked upon as 'skivvies'. Groups improve the quality of my life and my DCs love them.

I think to a certain extent 'twas ever thus. Sounds familiar to me and I haven't been to a toddler group since 1995!

My experience of volunteering is that some people genuinely think they are paying for a service and that the organisers are lining their pockets. I have heard this said to BB leaders.

I was at an event yesterday ( befriending service for retired people) and apparently 90% of volunteering is done by 10% of the population .
Maybe you need a break or a change of scenery. You are probably a bit burnt out.

TBF I have been to play groups run by a "professional" and she still had "tidy up time"!

HumphreyCobber - well the 'older lady' I was thinking of was based on model from another church playgroup. And honestly, I would have been happy to have looked into finding someone, but I think, like the OP, the women who ran it had an idea it should be everyone mucking in. which is fine - it's just it doesn't suit everyone.

BTW - I do fall into 'incredibly grateful' category for the play groups.

I know where you're coming from op. I attend a church run toddler group (for which I also volunteer) and my job also involves community engagement where I support the public to set up projects in their community.

There is a certain level of 'entitlement' amongst many people - they expect things to be given to them, particularly from the 'council' which embodies any public service. I think the way in which society is at the moment is geared towards this. We all lead very insular lives and there is always someone somewhere who will sort out whatever problem we have. I find this attitude is worse in respect of services provided for free. People just take it for granted and don't consider that it won't always be there.

What I would suggest (because this is how I do it for work) is to speak to people one on one. Ask them what they think of the group, what works and what doesn't. Ask them to think about what the group could be like in a years time and how they'd feel if it had to close. Then move on to how they would like it to be and if they've any ideas for how things could improve. Then ask them if they would be willing to help implement the changes. People are often more likely to want to get involved if they feel a sense of ownership over the project (hence asking them to come up with ideas for improvement). You could also do this in small groups. If you ask them to think about it, they will probably highlight the issues you've mentioned in your op themselves.

It is hard though. I think there is a certain type of person who will volunteer regardless but most people need a nudge.

I am sure you do raspberry. I just wanted to make the point the 'obvious' ideas don't always work out so well in practice. I think insurance/employer's liability would scupper the idea of a casual payment in a situation like this.

I think you are allowing yourself to be dumped on. Get a backbone. I cannot do x/y/z. If no one else does it b the group closes. I nearly got a group foisted onto me, I refused to do more than my fair share and others stepped up when they realised it really would close.

re the tidying up etc some people may have a bad back etc.

I forgot to add - when you ask them if they will help implement changes, ask them specifically what they would be willing to do. If you can tie their commitment to a specific job, then they're more likely to stick to that commitment. Good luck.

I second/thrid the idea that you brightly say to the people who turn up early something along the lines of, "How wonderful, you're here early to help! Would you please set up the tables over there/put out the cups ready for tea/whatever else" while smiling and then move on, pretending you haven't seen the sulking. I cannot imagine getting to a playgroup early and just standing and watching others setting up without offering to lend a hand! Same thing with snack/clearing up, find a couple of people who don't have children climbing on them and ask them to help with giving out/clearing up/washing up. 'Tidy up time' seems to just be a feature of playgroups, make it into a sort of game for the children, maybe with a song to sing while they do it and then do the wind down. When you're doing song and story, maybe ask people who haven't helped out yet to help clear the hall.

Sadly, there seem to be some people in this world who take and others who give.

You just need to leave. Not look for replacements this happens at every single playgroup I have ever been to. People will just use it as if they are paying for it

My experience of implementing a rota was that nobody signed up to it and you felt like a lemon asking them to.

There is probably a volunteer bureau in your town - log a request for someone to do craft/someone to do teas/someone to set up and clear away. Sometimes Sure Start centres will send a staff member to run the craft or run the whole thing. It will depend how many resources they have. They might also impose 'rules' though. Churches may also be able to offer help.

I used to help run a playgroup - I now regret doing so much. My dd needed food and a nap and I was there tidying away when I should have been getting her home. Sometimes dd was crying the whole time I was tidying up and that wasn't right. I moved away so that gave me an easy out. At the new house I only went to church run groups that had plenty of congregation volunteers or ones run by franchises/nurseries that were more expensive but employed staff. That has been better. In your place I would see if I could find some volunteers without children and if no joy I would step back and let it fold.

I volunteered to take over a toddler group because the owner was leaving and I didn't want it to close because I would have nowhere to go. I inherited a really good setup so I don't have any problems fortunately.

In the joining up bumph it says 'opening time is xx, I get here at yy to set up. If you want to come earlier than xx you are expected to help set up. If you can't help don't come til yy. You'll get an extra early brew if you help' or something along those lines.

We do 'tidy up time' -the kids love it. We have a loose brew making and washing up rota which is just me saying "Doris can you brew up today please, and Karen can you wash and dry?" I keep a tally of who's done what when.

Would it be worth "updating everyone's details" and issuing new joining instructions at the same time?

Can I ask what time you finish? I used to go to a group with DS which was on from 10am to 12pm. It was hard to get him to leave before the end but by then lunch was already late and it was getting dangerously close to nap time (and we still had the walk home). Sometimes I would just have to run without tidying up but normally felt too guilty so would just deal with the fallout. Quite often I would leave at 1130 to just avoid it all together. If you finish at a similar time maybe you would get on better bringing everything forward half an hour. Not sure what to do about the early mums who won't help though..... Have to say everyone seems to muck in at our local groups.

I think petal is right - step back and see what happens. They rarely fold I think but people are happy to let others do it.

I suppose the one I help at is in a rural area, maybe it's harder in towns.

maybe you should communicate the economics of the playgroup to these ungrateful attenders? Maybe they really think that their £1 actually does pay you, maybe they have no idea how much it costs to hire a hall...or they can't do the maths?
I agree with all the posters suggesting brightly asking for help and/or have a rota. Especially a rota for drinks, then just leave it....people will get the point if no drink appears. Also a newsletter/poster explaining that this is a parent-run group....no parents running it, no group

Oh goodness, when my kids went to a local Playgroup in the early 1970s, ALL the attending kids' mothers (no fathers ever appeared!) HAD to do a stint helping out. This involved setting out and putting away equipment in the village hall. Some stuff was stored under the stage and meant literally crawling in the dusty space to take out/put away.

It was simple - you didn't help, your kid didn't attend. The playgroup was started by local mothers and was so well attended a paid for play leader was employed. It was a lovely group and no-one took the mickey and didn't help - they'd have lost their kid's place if they'd had that attitude.

I guess times have changed.

Forgot to add to above, a rota was drawn up, saying who was expected and when. If for some reason you couldn't turn up (illness) then you had to phone in and explain. It worked really well. Playgroup ran five mornings every week.

"I used to help run a playgroup - I now regret doing so much. My dd needed food and a nap and I was there tidying away when I should have been getting her home. Sometimes dd was crying the whole time I was tidying up and that wasn't right. "

"Sometimes I would just have to run without tidying up but normally felt too guilty so would just deal with the fallout. Quite often I would leave at 1130 to just avoid it all together."

These posts are examples of my unease at the general "everyone should selflessly muck in" posturing on this thread.
I went to play groups when I had a 2 year old and a weeks / months-old baby and I was really not up for spending set, long hours out of the house, making myself available, doing things on others' timetables and generally mucking in properly.

If you want to run a play group I think you have to accept that a lot of people there need the energy that you are providing to attend such a thing, and if you withdraw that energy, they are not necessarily in a position to put their own in.

Some will, some won't, not everyone can.

you don't have to, either. it is a nice thing to do. but don't give what you can't afford.

I used to help run a playgroup - I now regret doing so much. My dd needed food and a nap and I was there tidying away when I should have been getting her home. Sometimes dd was crying the whole time I was tidying up and that wasn't right

Oh I remember that well! And the need to go in and open up even if your child was ill or you had other plans.

I remember having to withdraw cash from the account and it needing 2 signatories. I asked the 'secretary' to meet me at bank. I stood outside bank pregnant with 3year old, toddler in the rain ( honestly) and she never turned up.

Apparent PFB didn't feel like a trip to the bank and as she was in nursery the other three days, mum let her dictate the days when she was off, so thought it would be fine to stand me up ( "we've all got young kids, we know what it's like..." She said)

Anyway rant over