to be disappointed at the attitude of our playgroup attendees?

[playgroupwoes]

Regular post NC as this makes me identifiable.

When I moved here 2 and a half years ago as a SAHM I needed a way to meet friends and to get out with my DS so I started going to a playgroup which was run voluntarily by a group of local mums. I loved it and ended up going to both sessions every week. The way I saw it, the fact that I attended so often meant I was pretty much duty bound to at least help with the setting up/tidying away. As it happened I ended up joining the committee and now run the group with two other mums.

The group is very popular and we often get compliments on how well it's run etc. I really enjoy running it and meeting new people but lately the whole thing is being soured by how lazy and entitled our attendees seem to be - is this the norm or are we just unlucky?

The sessions start at 10 but a few mums regularly turn up early and then stand around chatting while we run around putting out toys. We know these mums well and they know how hard we work and yet they seem to have no qualms about simply not helping us. I sometimes ask for them to do things and here and there but tbh it's easier to get on with it than to constantly direct them when they know exactly what to do but are just too lazy to do it.

Equally there are a number of parents/grandparents who watch everyone else tidying up at the end and then just wander out without lifting a finger to help. We actually had to ask for people to tidy up their children's snack stuff - practically everyone was just leaving the mess all over the table for the skivvies to clear away.

Our numbers have increased a lot in the last year or so and that has made the attitude even worse for some reason - a couple of times recently I've had mums (it always seems to be mums, we have plenty of dads and grandparents too) snippily ask me where such and such is as though the service isn't up to scratch. It is infuriating.

The youngest children of the two other mums are starting fulltime nursery in September so we are looking for people to replace them so that the group can continue. I just cannot run it on my own so without volunteers the group will close.

Out of nearly 50 parents one solitary person has stepped up and as it happens she genuinely can't commit the time needed. Still, she and only she has done her best to help in any way she can and is a godsend. It's a shame she can't do more as she is great, but she has a genuine excuse for not being able to so.

Everyone else seems perfectly happy to watch volunteers run around after them and seem to see nothing wrong with not helping out.

AIBU to be really disappointed at the whole thing? I helped from the very first day I attended and never once sat down and expected my fellow parents to run around after me. I was hugely grateful these mums had started such a great group and was only too happy to help.

Is this apathy and unwillingness to step up a symptom of the society we live in, that people will happily just take and take and not contribute? Or are we, as I say, just unlucky? Can anyone explain this attitude and perhaps restore my positivity?

Ah, yes Tondelayo, that's a good idea...although we did put out a sign about everyone clearing up after snack and people still leave their children's plates on the table. I mean, how hard is it to carry a plate from the table to the tray?

If they are happy to let it wither away then that is their loss. I realise that it is important to you but if they wouldn't miss it enough to volunteer themselves then that is up to them.

As someone else said if necessary get hardass and say if you want your kid to attend you have to put the time in at least x times a month. Make it a condition of attendance.

playgroupwoes, You have to expect it, I'm afraid. This is why I stopped doing it, too much work & not enough time to actively play with my daughter.

I also volunteer at my girls school. We have many areas where volunteers are needed, but the same half dozen people do it all. Canteen, Gov council, book club, fund-raising, uniform shop, parent helpers.

It's just life, people don't want to be actively involved, but they want to take part in the good stuff.

I don't think it is selfish of them, because have this expectation that when they are paying for a group, that they are paying for the luxury of someone else doing the work, whether right or wrong.

At the same time, I wouldn't expect to hear them moaning about about it either.

And as sad as it is, if it does end up stopping, then it is their loss.

I'm reluctant to do that Billy, I think I'd rather let it close. It started as a co operative thing with everyone pulling together and that's what gave it its great atmosphere and made me love it so much. If it started being this organisation I have to run I think it would make it pointless for me. I don't get paid but I do get a sense of camaraderie and satisfaction. Without that it's just not worth the effort, I'd rather just find some other playgroup that I can go and laze around at!

"I'm not really sure about the rota - for those who use that, does it take much organising? The absolute last thing I want is to be a sort of boss, ordering people around and getting them to do their duty."

I know, that sucks, but the thing is that somehow you have got into a situation where there is a divide between providers and users and you have to force the situation back into being all users = helpers.

Having only 3 volunteers in the first place encourages an attitude in the others that a. Staff exist and b. they are not staff. you would never jump up in a coffee shop to get your own food if they forgot it, you would be told off in fact if you did - you would ask for it and it would be brought. This is the attitude your users are displaying, they are confused about what sort of social environment they are in (and lazy of course).

Some tasks can be done by every single person there - a formal tidy up time for instance, as others have said.

Others can't. you can't have 25 people piling into cupboards and pulling things out at the beginning, and 25 people trying to put them away at the end, it would be mayhem. So for those things you have no choice but to have a rota, or a set of volunteers - and make these people who are of a suitable personality that they have no problem with breezily co-opting others - "Can you grab the other end of this for me please?" and pretending not to see any sullen face - to keep reinforcing the lack of division you want between users and a "staff" class.

HOWEVER

"I think part of running of a playgroup is to set it all up, clear it all away, think of games & activities to play & lead the session."

This, too, a bit. Someone is going to do more work than the others. A lot of the attendees are very busy and have a lot of respsonsibility. they look forward to going somewhere where someone else has done a lot of the work. if you don't want that to be you, step down.

"I realise that it is important to you but if they wouldn't miss it enough to volunteer themselves then that is up to them. "

This. I went to the odd play group and tidied up at tidy up time, but I wouldn't have volunteered in order to "save" the group. It was a nice addition but never a regular thing for me.

I'm reluctant to do that Billy, I think I'd rather let it close. It started as a co operative thing with everyone pulling together and that's what gave it its great atmosphere and made me love it so much. If it started being this organisation I have to run I think it would make it pointless for me. I don't get paid but I do get a sense of camaraderie and satisfaction. Without that it's just not worth the effort, I'd rather just find some other playgroup that I can go and laze around at!

Then that is your answer. If people think it is important enough to them they will revive it for themselves.

When I had a group of local friends and we all had toddlers, we had a regular weekly meetup at someone's house. There would be 7 adults, 13 children (although 6 were babies) and whoever's house it was would be rushed off their feet sorting out weather-appropriate activities in advance, lunch (though the others would bring cake or something) and then tidying up afterwards. But it was only your turn one time in 7. We made an agreement early on that we wouldn't try and help clear up because everyone's toddler or baby wanted a nap - including the one at the host house, so the host could clear up in peace - and it would work out fair if we all took it in turns, so everyone would just leave to put their kids into bed.
the 6 times out of 7 you got to sit in someone else's house, playing, helping in a light way but not really having to sort anything out, made the 7th well worth it. I think you want something like that but everyone else sees the play group as "your house" and they are having their longed for time off.

honestly, if I was always significantly on duty I don't know if I would bother getting together with other parents and small children. I only like it because I don't always have to do everything. when I do, I do - that's fair enough - but too many cooks spoil the broth and it is better to rotate effort than have everyone all hanging about, on edge, well meaning, not very effective, but not relaxed either

You're dead right queenmab.

Part of my woe is not wanting things to change. Currently my two friends and I work really really well together and running the group has been fantastic. That's all going to change and I'm having a bit of a tantrum about it. But I suppose if I really do want it to continue I have to be open to doing things a different way.

Your responses have been hugely helpful. I need a plan of action.

There are two mums who are early every week and have been coming since the very start, so know the group inside out and are totally aware of how much work we put in, and yet even when asked do nothing. They have been getting on my wick lately but I need to let it go - they are just lazy and inconsiderate and aren't worth the bother.

Points about people not being sure what to do are totally valid. Much and all as I don't like it I think I need to start making our "procedures" very clear so everyone knows what's expected.

I am always one to say don't give a gift if you expect thanks and I suppose I need to suck up my own advice. I do enjoy volunteering and I feel it's worthwhile. Thanks are nice but I think I'll feel better not to expect it IYSWIM.

I won't be treated like a skivvy but I don't want to get a bad attitude about the whole thing either.

Well there you go, you want it to be easier for you, but not in a way that involves changing it. If you want other people to help out, you can't be the ones "in charge" and have to let go a bit. It strikes me that you don't want other people to do the work, you want other people to be your 'helpers' while you still retaining the 'right' to do things exactly your way. But that does'nt work anymore.

You might be worth letting it fold, or announcing you are stepping down and need others to step up to help organise. However, if you do that, will you feel left out if someone else takes your role on?

Have you thought about not setting up, not running around etc, and just sit down and chat when everyone is arriving?
It might hammer home the message that this is not a business and you are not staff?
When they moan that nothing is set up, you can make the point about helping.

If your friends are leaving in September, why not state the group will close then unless a new committee comes forwards - you can step back to being a (helpful !) attendee.0

We did think about doing that Ydd, but it seems a bit passive aggressive. The one thing I don't want to lose is the lovely atmosphere we have - many people have commented how friendly the group is and everyone mixes well etc. That's why I want to address this feeling of disappointment I have - it'll come across if I'm not happy and I don't want it affecting the group.

Mary - I don't know to be honest. The way it works at the moment is great, but it's quite a difficult set up to replicate so I'm aware it likely won't continue with new people and I'll have to accept that. One suggested long term thing was that I get a few people on board, get them going and then back off and let them take over. Which is an option.

At the playgroup I used to go to, we were given little cards, each with a small task on that we should do. We also had tidy up time at the end, and were asked to help, so we all just mucked in together.

I think its up to you to clearly state what you want from atendees.

You could just announce at end of session or beginning, hello everyone, just to make it a little quicker, can everyone chip in with putting stuff away please, unless your physically unable to help...

Are you being welcoming and non cliquey?

I only ask as I went to a toddler group where I offered to help and people were really unfriendly, didn't tell me what needed doing (e.g. where to get chairs/tables from, which boxes got put out) and I ended up standing around like a lemon or getting told off for doing the wrong thing.

Didn't bother offering again.

Years ago, playgroups were all staffed by volunteers, and you knew that part of the deal was that you helped out on a rota, etc. Then things changed, and most groups started employing staff. I think a lot of people are just out of the habit of having to do things for themselves, they just assume people who are doing the work, are being paid for it.
You need to just be very clear in reminding people that you are just a group of parents who have got together to give the children somewhere to play, that nobody is employed to do any of this, and that, as such, it only works if everybody chips in, and then let people know what jobs need doing (as not everyone will know what needs doing if they've not helped or worked at a playgroup before).

yanbu and yabu

yanbu to expect help. yabu not to ask people directly to help. there have been times when I am too frazzled or knackered to be much reliable regular help - suspect this is the case for many people - but if I was at a playgroup and someone asked/expected me to pitch in there is no way I wouldn't.

ya-also- bu not to have created the culture of collective effort from the start - easier said than done I know but its not too late to start. people possibly think of the thing as "yours" not "ours" - rotas for craft and snacks and breezy calls of "tidy up time" all help. ime then people muck in.

When I was new to a toddler group if have loved it if someone had come up to me and asked if I would help. I'm now on the committee but it took a while before I was brave enough to ask to get involved.

In fact at our toddlers we have a rota: and other mums often help even if it's not their turn etc. In my experience I haven't seen these problems...

OP have you been making requests to the group in general or spotting people you think would be good and approaching them personally with a direct, friendly request for them to become involved? Because the latter is generally much more effective.

PS I'd just like to say, even though I don't attend the playgroup you run, I think you are brilliant for all the work you have put in. People like you, who step up and put the work in, make our society far richer and kinder. Best of luck keeping things going.

I have always been a 'Volunteerer type' and this sounds about normal.

My youngest is currently going to a weekly village toddler group & I do wonder abit about the parents who will sit & watch their toddler empty out the box of toys I have just tidied up at the end .

I definitely do think it's a case of people thinking they are paying, so should get a service. Which is clearly bollocks when the entrance fee covers no more than hall hire, a drink & snack & a tiny amount towards a birthday present and Christmas party/gift for each toddler. The helpers are in no way paid staff.

playgroup - actually I would have been happy to organise someone to do it, but I don't think that's how others in the group wanted it. It was over ten years ago.

Interesting thread about the unspoken rules of playgroup politics though!

I ran a toddler group with a friend for a while, and yes this can happen. We regularly had 40 children plus carers so it was a busy group.

We used to do a little newsletter once a term (the group also has a FB group) which reminded people that the group was run by volunteers, and relied on everyone pitching in to help with tidying up, washing up etc. I was to discover that some people thought we just kept the entrance money for ourselves once we'd paid for teabags & snacks!

i quite like the idea of 'spoiling' mums with a cup of tea/cake that they dont have to make themselves and dont have to worry about tidying up for once
but my kids are older so i dont mind doing it
we all pitch in with tidying up - kids fave activity
i totally get how you feel though. it is all about the attitude. all volunteering is like that