to wonder why the SNP aren't getting the same bashing that UKIP are?

[kinkytoes]

I'm not a political expert by any means and I know there has been a lot of discussion on both topics here.

But both these parties have the same ultimate aim - independence for their countries. Why is no-one calling SNP supporters racist? Not that I think they should be - just curious about the apparent double standard.

montysma Melonade , you sound ridiculous

Oh well. From that, I take it that intelligent, law abiding women with different opinions and thoughts of their own would not be welcome in an independent Scotland. Either.

And no, it was not me who described the anti-English slogan.

You know perfectly well that FB is full of this kind of vitriolic crap.

Where did I say that intellegent law abiding women wouldnt be welcome in Scotland exactly?

As you say, everyone has opinions and when I chose to challenge yours and express my opinion, you immediately "take it" that I am suggesting a person of different views would not "be welcome in an independent Scotland. Your words, not mine. Taking issue with your opinions does not make me anti English, or threatening. I have said nothing against England or the English.

You by contrast have had a lot to say that is anti Scottish, including your charming "humorous" story about the family on the plane.

"You're not the same family who I sat next to a plane from Aberdeen once, who were flying to Heathrow and then straight back again, they spent the entire flight discussing how exciting and interesting it was to leave Scotland for the first, time, be on a plane flight, etc. but how they would be glad to get back home, and they weren't going outside the airport into "that damned place". From the conversation, they were clearly just flying straight back again as soon as they landed."

If your "humour" involves looking down your nose at people who for whatever reason have never travelled, either through lack of funds/opportunity/education and to use that story as an implied generalisation for a whole country/nation then it probably goes a long way to expaining why you experience such vehement negative resonses from people
Substitute the "Scottish family" with "Pakistani family" and see how it reads.

I have 2 facebook pages one for work, which I dont use for any personal interests. Consequently , I get little or no Independence stuff. strange that you do. Again, can you link?
My personal page as I said, gets lots of indy debate stuff, and I repeat NONe of it is overtly racist or anti English. It is Pro Scottish, which in your eyes seems to be the same thing.

Melonade, if your FB is full of that sort of stuff, you need to revise your friends list. Like a pp, I have news feeds from loads of pro-yes pages, from Wings and Bellacaledonia, through newsnetscotland and businessforscotland, to various midges, witches and Poles for indy, and I have seen nothing like that. I've seen plenty of "Alex is a fat cunt" type of comments, but that's what you get for following @BritNatAbuseBot on Twitter...

Melonade, if your FB is full of that sort of stuff, you need to revise your friends list. Like a pp, I have news feeds from loads of pro-yes pages, from Wings and Bellacaledonia, through newsnetscotland and businessforscotland, to various midges, witches and Poles for indy, and I have seen nothing like that. I've seen plenty of "Alex is a fat cunt" type of comments, but that's what you get for following @BritNatAbuseBot on Twitter... grin

~This

Montysma Melonade, if your FB is full of that sort of stuff, you need to revise your friends list

Yes of course I will do it immediately. If you really think that telling people what friends they can have on FB is appropriate and blocking people from having views is desirable.

Looking back, its come from comments made in response posts agreeing with posts made by pro-independence friends who are a primary school teacher, a QUANGO official, a businessman, a paralegal and several engineers. Damn, I've got a lot of blocking of friends of friends to do.

NB the friends you have just advised I need to revise from my FB friends list are all women.

You know what, I'd rather see this sort of stuff. Otherwise I wouldn't be aware of it. Like you claim to be. I don't really believe that.

In general on MN, the debate has been intelligent and not racist. There have been lots of reasonable points made on both sides.

However, on those occasions it has not been so, my observation is that it has been the No voters (or Unionists, as they may not have a vote) who have been patronising, racist and on occasion just plain rude (toowhit, the thread that was pulled yesterday about Alex Salmond being a fat twat and also attacking Nicola Sturgeon).

Like a pp, I have news feeds from loads of pro-yes pages, from Wings and Bellacaledonia, through newsnetscotland and businessforscotland, to various midges, witches and Poles for indy, and I have seen nothing like that

You know, I've read that several times now and I still have no idea what it means.

Are you seriously telling me you troll people like me on the internet, but you have never seen any of the following on FB (all direct quotes from my FB as described above):

"Fucking English Tory bastards"

"Fucking Thatcherite Southern scum"

"Fuckin English cunts need to take their shite back home and stay there"

Of course I'm not dictating who you can be friends with. Just that were I to see that kind of shit on my FB wall, or perhaps tons of racist crap from EDL-types, or homophobic or misogynistic ranting, I'd be revising mine. Because I really don't need that kind of shit on my FB wall.

So maybe that's why I don't see the anti-English stuff. Because none of my contacts on FB are anti-English.

Er, in what way am I "trolling you on the internet"? What was that about letting everyone have their say, yes or no?

And no, I have never seen anything like that on FB.

I am scottish , I lived in england for many years.
I was the victim of "racism" there, however id refer to it as bigotry.

you will get bigots wherever you go. the vast majority of scots are not anti english people , a few will be. Just as a few english are anti scots.

what people struggle with is the difference in attitude.

I notice the people who complain of anti english feeling in scotland are voting no. theres some connection there is there not?

I have 2 facebook pages one for work, which I dont use for any personal interests. Consequently , I get little or no Independence stuff. strange that you do. Again, can you link?

You want me to link you to my own personal Facebook page? Seriously? Where in the world do you get your ideas about what people will and will do and why on earth?...

Good heavens!

If your "humour" involves looking down your nose at people who for whatever reason have never travelled, either through lack of funds/opportunity/education and to use that story as an implied generalisation for a whole country/nation then it probably goes a long way to expaining why you experience such vehement negative resonses from people Substitute the "Scottish family" with "Pakistani family" and see how it reads

You know I have told that story to quite a few people here in Scotland and everyone has found it hilarious. I've told it to several foreign friends, and they too have found it funny. No-one has ever taken it that seriously. Of course it doesn't imply a whole country is like that. I'm sure every people has rather innocent, unaware people who lack an urge to explore the outside world. However I have to say if a foreign family (I'm unsure why you specifically mention Pakistanis) did the same thing in what would be for them a foreign country, I would be full of nothing but admiration for them).

However the majority of Pakistani people probably do not have the same opportunities to enjoy travel for leisure as the Scots, as many of them suffer real poverty, deprivation and lack of education.

I've seen stuff like that melonade although to be fair it is usually modded out from the respectable pages.

I think it is disingenuous to say the least to claim that no indy supporters dislike the English, or that anti-English sentiment isn't just as shameful as sectarian sentiment.

Just because you've never seen or experienced something, doesn't then make it the case that a poster who has is lying...

So maybe that's why I don't see the anti-English stuff. Because none of my contacts on FB are anti-English

Christ, well maybe I have got friends on FB who are in turn friends with some very vehement nationalists. The worse stuff seems to come from the friends of the teacher and the QUANGO official. Much of it is spelled wrong too.

And what about the cybernats? Has Salmond managed to quell their enthusiasm yet?

I'm not saying anti-Englishness (or sectarianism) doesn't exist, of course it does. What I am saying is that I don't see it on my FB wall.

I've heard it in the streets, often associated with international football matches (rugby far less). I've seen similar graffiti on walls.

But not on my FB wall.

Indeed Oldlady it was another poster who said they'd never seen anti-English graffiti. My post was general.

What, exactly, is the definition of a "cybernat"? How do you propose the FM "control" them? Anyone expressing an anti-English opinion anywhere online should be isolated from t'interwebs till Sept 19? What was that about freedom of opinion?

Of course there are vile people on every side of every argument, what is so special about "cybernats"?

mobile.twitter.com/BritNatAbuseBot?p=s BritNats.

Oh Christ. Why should I provide such basic information for you OldLady? I assume since you are using a computer, you can google the following yourself:

From Collins Online Dictionary - I draw the line at paying for a subscription to the OED online for you: "An informal name for a Scottish National Party supporter who uses social media and online forums to put forward the cause of Scottish independence.
Additional Information"

"THE SNP has been forced to issue another warning to so-called "cybernats" after Sir Chris Hoy was bombarded with online abuse for suggesting Scots athletes could be disadvantaged if the country votes for independence. [The Herald, May 2013]"

I believe the term was originally coined by Lord Foulkes, after he receieved threats from SNP supporters for voicing anti-independence viewpoints:

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/cybernats-scaring-pro-union-voters-carmichael-1-3295541

Some other stuff:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/9632629/Police-asked-to-investigate-Alex-Salmonds-anti-English-jibes.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10679203/General-accuses-SNP-minister-of-endangering-his-family-after-Cybernat-attack.html

Heres some examples of the "quality" of the debate:

www.bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk/index.php/city-news/655-cybernat-abusers-under-salmonds-control-says-peer.html

logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/get-your-proud-cybernat-badges-as.html

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/jmacmillan/100059628/alex-salmond-is-exploiting-scotlands-reservoir-of-anti-englishness-dont-be-surprised-if-it-overflows/

To be fair, Nicola Sturgeon has apparently received death threats and Salmond abusive comments regarding his family.

Just listened to radio 2 news. Nothing about Scotland except royal bank bonuses even though as you say milliband is in Scotland.

My point is not that people shouldnt be interested - it is that the it has a low profile in the uk. Perhaps this is intentional. Message from Westminster: the no vote will win and the status quo will remain the same. Message from salmond: the yes vote will win but don't worry.

Either way 50 million plus people will have a chance to vote for a UKIP member in the next few years. Only 5 million will get a chance to vote for the SNP.

Short of taking to the streets there isn't much people in England, Scotland or Wales can do to influence the outcome, and I still maintain that you could read every broadsheet article about Scottish independence and still lack the perspective and experience of somebody living in fife or the Orkneys .

Your links are revealing indeed.

1. Leader of BetterTogether makes unsubstantiated claims (even he admits it's anecdotal) about Yes campaigners.
2. Eejit makes complaint, police chat kindly for 20 minutes and decline to take it further.
3. Eejit sends out unsolicited begging letters, complete with all of his "private" contact details, and expresses surprise when the info (already freely available online) ends up... online.
4. BBCScotlandshire is a spoof, or parody site. We call it "humour" where I come from.
5. I'm not quite sure what your point is, it's a blog that quotes Anas Sarwar and links to the Daily Mail, amongst other stuff. I haven't read the whole thing, but it looks fairly harmless to me, and the words "Fuck off you English cunts" aren't immediately apparent.
6. James MacMillan is known for his interesting views. He's not noted for having his finger on the pulse of the Scottish nation, shall we say?

Follow my link to Twitter for some Alex-abuse.

"It is that the vote on independence has a low profile in the rest of the uk."

Aboyandabunny - Sorry posted and then had to go out.

Re the Cornish thing, I have to be honest, it seems to have come out of nowhere - I have not seen anything in the papers to say that such a decision was imminent. - and therefore I don't really know that much about it. I've seen the flags in Cornwall when we have visited and I know that they have wanted some recognition of their unique heritage, language and identity so anything that recognises that can't be a bad thing. I can't see the Cornish challenging for their own assembly to match Wales for example, as they are too small and too poor. I am not even sure many Cornish people want that.

Melonade, you have such a lovely manner and way of communicating with people. Maybe your friends 'opinions' are just phrased in the same way, but of the opposite viewpoint?

Oops that was a typo

"England, northern ireland or Wales".

Anyway, I seem to have managed to establish a consensus between two people who I think are yes and no voters on the idea that I am astonishingly ignorant.

The thread has also answered the OP's question "Why is no-one calling SNP supporters racist?": clearly they are.

All that needs to be done is to get some kind of agreement on what the economic effects of independence will be not only on Scotland but on the rest of the UK and I think we will be getting somewhere.

It's a big ask before September though.