to consider UKIP racist?

[fidelineish]

Tell me, please.

Thankfully people are now seeing through the propaganda and rhetoric of the pro Europe brigade.

Cue the conservatives employing some of UKIPs policies to try to stem the flood of UKIP new converts.

Amber

UKIP will prioritise social housing for those with parents and grandparents born locally

I just googled that phrase that you wrote. Google says - no documents.

So I looked on the UKIP 2014 Local Manifesto and did a search for the word 'parent'. Nothing found.

Where is this policy that you are quoting please?

Wtf how does being ineligible for something mean you can still get it?

And they don't mean local as in born in that town They mean local to read not connected to at least 2 generations of immigration.

So UKIP consider my kids to be non-British despite being born here to British parents who have paid into the system since 16.

AmberLeaf, what about all the white non-natives (such as me)? A policy that disproportionately affects one ethnic group is not necessarily racist.

Which is why I've asked Amberleaf to point us to the policy as I can't find it.

Sorry Amber but

"It is racist. Because it is not decided on their nationality, not because they are immigrants, they are british, they just happen to be black."

Where does black enter into this? I can find no mention of the word "black" anywhere.

What has colour got to do with it?

I have already explained. I will again, the vast majority of black british and mixed race people will have a parent/grandparent who was not born locally. This proposed policy would unfairly affect british black people massively. That makes it a racist policy.

The key word here is LOCAL and we are a multicultural country

We are a multicultural country because of immigration. That means, that those people whos existence make the UK a multicultural country would not be considered 'local people' when it comes to accessing social housing.

Your hyperbole is astounding

I don't need to exaggerate. I am explaining how that UKIP policy would affect huge numbers of people.

I have, in the past, applied and been granted social housing. I wasn't asked about my grandparents, either in the singular or the plural. At present, a friend who is on the list says he is required to have lived in the area himself for a bit.

Chaps I think Amber has made the valid point that a policy that will have the largest impact on one ethnic group rather than any other ethnic group is the issue.

A law/rule/whatever csn be targeted at attacking one group without explicitly saying that. Which UKIP appears to be doing if that quote is correct.

Wetaugust

It is on the UKIP euro manifesto page 6.

here

Softly

But I can see past that policy to their past, a vast majority of their supporters, to the behaviours and statements of their representatives and what I see is that they are a party that is inherently racist, sexist and disabalist who preys on the fear vote.

sources for all of these please

AmberLeaf, what about all the white non-natives (such as me)? A policy that disproportionately affects one ethnic group is not necessarily racist

Were you born in the UK?

I think that a policy that disproportionately affects one ethnic group is certainly racist.

I think Amber has made the valid point that a policy that will have the largest impact on one ethnic group rather than any other ethnic group is the issue

Yes.

A law/rule/whatever csn be targeted at attacking one group without explicitly saying that. Which UKIP appears to be doing if that quote is correct

Exactly that.

I definitely provided citations for the behaviour and statements of their representatives earlier on the thread. Is it the other thread that I linked to a discussion of their past disablist policies, with their new disability spokesperson?

The piece that Amberleaf quoted from is in the EuroManifesto.

It strikes me as a return to a form of 'parish relief' whereby, under the Poor Laws, your local area had to provide for you.

I don't agree with this policy.

Gordy, no I am not stalking you, you are prominent on a lot discussions that are intertwined .

You have no problems with the current immigration policy, but those that do should automatically be written of then?

I don't agree with this policy

Do you agree that it is a racist policy?

Amber, do you think that all policies need to be evaluated on the basis that they impact all races/ethnicities proportionately? I don't understand your reasoning.

And no, I wasn't born here but my children were and it seems like the policy as you've described it would leave them (they're white) ineligible for social housing. Or does that not matter, because they're American?

softly - but it is not targeting one group - it is targeting a situation - if you parents or grandparents were not born in the uk you will have less priority than those whose were. If your racial group happens to have a lot of people who fit that bill then so be it - the policy is not designed to be anti your racial group - it is designed around a principle.

Ukip are a breath of fresh air and I shall definitely be voting for them. My kids who have never been motivated to vote because of the poor choice now feel they want to do so.

there are four generations in our family who will definitely be rooting for ukip and if that makes me racist, im proud to be it

But the policy is like the Jim Crow laws in the US. It doesn't explicitly mention race but its effects were racist and were intended to be so.

Raceis a classification system used to categorize humansinto large and distinctpopulationsor groupsbyanatomical,cultural,ethnic,genetic,geographical, historical,linguistic,religious, and/or socialaffiliation.

So Saski your children fits that categorisation as they would be categorised as non British because you are Americsn. Even though they are British.

so yes it matters and yes its racist.

If policy makers target a certain race/ethnicity and then reverse-engineer a non-sensical policy around that - I can agree it's racist. For example, crack cocaine carries a much higher penalty than regular cocaine in the US (not sure if that's the case here). I'm sure everyone is familiar with this and it's news to no-one.

Now distinguishing between natives & immigrants is pretty logical/normal when it comes to allocating scarce resources i.e. social housing. I'm not certain I agree with your grandparents having to be born in the country but it seems that no one can confirm this on the thread.

Chaps Spider you think its fair that if my children were in dire straights they wouldn't be housed just because their paternal grandparents weren't born here?

Despite those grandparents, their father, me, and uncountable generations of their maternal family paying millions into the system. And I do mean millions and taking nothing back in benefits ever.

But someone whose entire family on both sides have never ever worked, drained the country dry can get ongoing social housing based purely on the fact their grandparents were spawned here?

Can you honestly look at that situation and say:

• its right

• its fair

• you would be proud to vote for it

• it isn't based on nothing more than race

Saski amber provided a link to that policy. It's their in black and white.